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June International Test: Australia vs. England [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

Curious to know, if any English think there's an English coach capable of producing what Eddie Jones is producing currently?
 
Aotearoa_ said:
Curious to know, if any English think there's an English coach capable of producing what Eddie Jones is producing currently?
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Paul Gustard... the defence coach who has been producing defensive performances like this with Saracens for years.

Rob Baxter, maybe... but no - I wouldn't have confidence in dropping any of the DOR's/HC's from the premiership into Eddie's position.
 
Considering a ONLY MONTHS AGO, Englands confident RWC campaign ended in pool play as the host tier 1 nation DID have a fairly tough pool, and then you compare them to now. The big difference is Eddie Jones.

One poster here mentioned that England are playing good cos theyre playing NH style rugby HAHA. Didnt the RWC highlight the difference between the two hemispheres?..IN the NH might I add is where the SH TEAMS reminded everybody.

As were seeing with a lot of the 6 nations employing SH coaches, its clearly helped. Should have England followed suit a long time ago? perhaps. Its because of ******** Clive Woodward boasting that he never wanted to do what New Zealand was doing, I think that might have a built a bit of reluctance to chase coaches outside of England.

Anyway while the Aussies have mentioned theyre missing players, England have a player who I think could make them even more of a force than they are now and thats Manu Tuilagi.

I honestly wish England played us THIS week. Wales is boring, at this stage Id rather us play England and then the Waikato Chiefs after that.
 
^^ On Manu Tuilagi iv always been perplexed as to why England never put more effort into that guy. He was clearly pretty talented and if handled properly could of easily been Englands Ma'a Nonu.

Seemed to me like the guy was just thrown out with the trash after a couple of minor infractions.


That all said im pretty glad about it because by about now I reckon he'd be coming right. Thats the sort of player they are missing. I mean on the weekend they played Farrell at 12. He's not exactly going to instill fear in the AB's.
 
austingtir said:
^^ On Manu Tuilagi iv always been perplexed as to why England never put more effort into that guy. He was clearly pretty talented and if handled properly could of easily been Englands Ma'a Nonu.

Seemed to me like the guy was just thrown out with the trash after a couple of minor infractions.


That all said im pretty glad about it because by about now I reckon he'd be coming right. Thats the sort of player they are missing. I mean on the weekend they played Farrell at 12. He's not exactly going to instill fear in the AB's.
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He's injured and keeps on getting injured he hasn't been chucked out the trash. Even last year in the world cup it was just smokescreen as he was injured. He played from the bench in a couple of 6 nations games this year whilst getting back to fitness but got injured again.

So yeah might want to check why we are not playing a player first...
 
ncurd said:
He's injured and keeps on getting injured he hasn't been chucked out the trash. Even last year in the world cup it was just smokescreen as he was injured. He played from the bench in a couple of 6 nations games this year whilst getting back to fitness but got injured again.

So yeah might want to check why we are not playing a player first...
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Just said he was missing, NEVER said he wasnt picked. I know he'd be picked under Eddie Jones. Even if he plays shlt in the domestic comps, Eddie will still pick him.
@austin, yeah totally agree. He comes to NZ, puts on a black jersey and then its Manu Tuilagi havoc.

Thats the thing about England. Thats one player that we know is good that they have at their disposal. They might have some others but we can speculate on how good the others maybe but Tuilagi has PROVEN to be nusance to us.
 
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Rockradar said:
Just said he was missing, NEVER said he wasnt picked. I know he'd be picked under Eddie Jones. Even if he plays shlt in the domestic comps, Eddie will still pick him.
@austin, yeah totally agree. He comes to NZ, puts on a black jersey and then its Manu Tuilagi havoc.

Thats the thing about England. Thats one player that we know is good that they have at their disposal. They might have some others but we can speculate on how good the others maybe but Tuilagi has PROVEN to be nusance to us.
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Yeah I know I wasn't replying to yourself.
 
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Yeah don't know how Manu comes into this if he can go a season of staying fit What Fraser and Croft have just done) then I'm sure Eddie has plans for him but until then not much can be done.

We have currently
12) Farrell, Slade (although I don't have clue if he will play there).
13) JJ, Daly

Coming up we have
12) Devoto, Hill, Mallinder, Williams
13) Thompkins, James, Stephenson, Marchant

Not bad and I hope that in the next 2 years that
Mallinder is the starting 12 @ Saints
Williams will be a AP starter after getting huge game time in the championship
Thompkins will be starting @ Saracens
James carries on being Sales 13
Stephenson will be starting with Saints
Marchant will be a squad player for Quins getting regular game time.

My main concern is what is going to happen at Cheifs, will Slade be playing more at 10,12 or 13? Will Hill be 12 or 13 and will Devoto be starting @12? Or will the Italian play 13?

I'm not sure how many will become world class but hopefully we will find one or two players who are international standards.
 
He may only have one leg, but why aren't we starting Manu next week?
And I know he's been retired for years but surely we should be looking at Jason Robinson to come in for Mike Brown?
And I know he's not eligible but maybe we could start Piutau on the wing if Nowell is out?
 
England's recent performances are a little odd, Eddie really hasn't changed a lot of the team personnel wise from what SL put in place, but has some how managed to get the very best out of under performing players Haskell and Robshaw to mention a few, I said it before and was pleasantly suprised to be wrong, I felt the grand slam was done largely due to a big drop in the quality of the other NH sides and fully expected to go to Australia and the gulf between the two hemispheres to once again be highlighted.

Whilst I'm not denying a lot of this is down to EJ some how brining the best out of individuals and that he is an excellent coach I do wonder if in some part it is down to the recent excellence Sarries have had, there defence is world class and having so many sarries in the England team allows this defensive quality to be transferred into the England team as well as Gustard coaching the defence.

Itoji does make a huge difference in the breakdown which is something the England squad has really not had for too long, the fact that he hasn't lost a game this season that he has started is no coincidence.
 
I'm just glad SA aren't playing England this June series while we are findin our feet (hopefully). I suspect a good run of wins (with the odd draw) would've come crashing down 0-3 as is. that said I suspect we might come crashing down sooner rather han later in any case due to Coetzee having the uneviable job of keeping SA competitive while getting us to 50% non-white in a country where the rugby playing numbers are mostly white.
 
Jimbo87 said:
England's recent performances are a little odd, Eddie really hasn't changed a lot of the team personnel wise from what SL put in place, but has some how managed to get the very best out of under performing players Haskell and Robshaw to mention a few, I said it before and was pleasantly suprised to be wrong, I felt the grand slam was done largely due to a big drop in the quality of the other NH sides and fully expected to go to Australia and the gulf between the two hemispheres to once again be highlighted.

Whilst I'm not denying a lot of this is down to EJ some how brining the best out of individuals and that he is an excellent coach I do wonder if in some part it is down to the recent excellence Sarries have had, there defence is world class and having so many sarries in the England team allows this defensive quality to be transferred into the England team as well as Gustard coaching the defence.

Itoji does make a huge difference in the breakdown which is something the England squad has really not had for too long, the fact that he hasn't lost a game this season that he has started is no coincidence.
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England's defence has been good. During the two games, it seems that it was improving! If Gustard is the man whose tightened that up then a nod of respect to him.

Eddie has got the best out of the players and Im sure a lot more than just that.

It makes you wonder though when SL had these same players, what wasn't he doing?
 
Rockradar said:
England's defence has been good. During the two games, it seems that it was improving! If Gustard is the man whose tightened that up then a nod of respect to him.

Eddie has got the best out of the players and Im sure a lot more than just that.

It makes you wonder though when SL had these same players, what wasn't he doing?
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That's exactly the point i was trying to make, above all there just seems to be an unwavering belief within the team we haven't seen, perhaps the vice captancies EJ has put in place was a stroke of genius, I have little doubt the defensive structure is Gustards brain child, in order for it to be successful it requires the whole team to buy into it which they are all now doing, unfortunately Burrell couldn't grasp it which was his down fall.
 
Rockradar said:
Considering a ONLY MONTHS AGO, Englands confident RWC campaign ended in pool play as the host tier 1 nation DID have a fairly tough pool, and then you compare them to now. The big difference is Eddie Jones.
Click to expand...

The zeroes to heroes narrative is overrated. Yeah, they had an awful World Cup. But go back a little further and they put in a solid 6N and beat Australia in Twickenham in the year before. This team could clearly play a little. They go and put in one of the worst World Cups to ever exist from a big rugby nation - possibly the worst - but the underlying talent and building blocks don't just disappear. It was all there for someone who hadn't gone temporarily insane to make it work.

Throw in a few talented youngsters who hadn't quite had the time to make their case for Lancaster's squad - Itoje is already a big difference - a kinder 6N schedule and a steady list of declining opponents while playing with less injury problems ourselves and there's plenty of reasons for England's upswing. I don't want to take away too much from Eddie Jones, but he's using another man's tools on an easier task. It's not a complete surprise there's been plenty of success. He's been a class act so far, definitely the missing piece of the puzzle, but only a piece nevertheless.

edit: Don't think the team looks any more full of self-belief than before and am pretty sure an Andy Farrell coached defence could have held out the Aussies in those conditions too.
 

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