June International Test: South Africa vs. Ireland [2nd Test] (18/06/2016)

[unrated]

Louw should start at 7. He has not been on fire and id go as far as to say he is out of form. But we have to weigh our options here. We are in agreement that Kriel should now get his chance and after the horror showing of Kolisi on saturday surely Jaco Kriel's chances should have increased tenfold. If Kolisi did not give away constant penalties then he would run into the tackle way too high and lose the ball in addition he also isolated himself from his teammates on multiple occasions. South Africa produces some of the worlds best loosies and if a player does not perform then he should be dropped as is the case with Kolisi.
We know AC probably wont make too many changes as he kept the team the same after they lost the first test so why would he now change it when they won? It was clear to us all that the replacements won the game and they deserve a start.

If AC chose the lineup that gives us the best chance of winning the series and is unbiased towards his oogappeltjies then it should look something like this.

15. le Roux
14. Combrinck
13. Kriel ---- Mapoe did not take his chance
12. De Allende His defence was awfull and his attack on its own simply does not make up for it. I was a big fan of the guy before the last test but now ive lost all my respect for him but who do we have to replace him?. Get Serfontein back ASAP
11. Pietersen
10. Jantjies
9. de Klerk
8. Whiteley/ Vermeulen whoever is fit i rate both very highly
7. Louw
6. Kriel
5.du Toit
4. Etzebeth
3. Redelinghuys
2. Strauss
1. Mtawarira

 

[SomeOke]

Louw should start at 7. He has not been on fire and id go as far as to say he is out of form. But we have to weigh our options here. We are in agreement that Kriel should now get his chance and after the horror showing of Kolisi on saturday surely Jaco Kriel's chances should have increased tenfold. If Kolisi did not give away constant penalties then he would run into the tackle way too high and lose the ball in addition he also isolated himself from his teammates on multiple occasions. South Africa produces some of the worlds best loosies and if a player does not perform then he should be dropped as is the case with Kolisi.
We know AC probably wont make too many changes as he kept the team the same after they lost the first test so why would he now change it when they won? It was clear to us all that the replacements won the game and they deserve a start.

Not that I think you're wrong, just pointing out the hypocrisy, Siya has now had 1 good game and one relatively bad game, where as Flouw has been pretty much nowhere in both.

can someone explain exactly how the quota system works? specifically who counts as black, how many in the 15 need to be black and how many of 23 need to be black?

from what i've heard in previous comments it sounds like all of the good non-white players don't actually count as being black; Beast, Habana, JPP etc.

The quota system is actually not valid until the world cup in 2019 but until then, AC will try his best to select as if it is in place, after all there is no use in grooming a team for four years, only to be forced into making changes in 2019 for the world cup. Not to mention he will be under constant political pressure to conform.

How it works is this:
50% of the team has to not be white, so black people and coloured people all count here - note that coloured is a non-derogatory ethnic label in South Africa for people of mixed race (coloured people in South Africa can actually get offended if you call them mixed race). This means players like JP Pietersen, Lionel Mapoe, Elton Jantjies, Bryan Habana etc.
Of that 50%, 60% have to be local ethnic black people, so essentially 30% minimum ethnic black - these are people like Lwazi Mvovo, Trevor Nkayane, and Siya Kolisi (Not Tendai Mtawarira since he is Zimbabwean).


So the reason why us Saffers are worried about the inclusion of Combrink, is that it means if we start him ahead of Mvovo, we need to make space somewhere else in the team for a black player.

 

[die_mole]

Not that I think you're wrong, just pointing out the hypocrisy, Siya has now has 1 good game and one relatively bad game, whereas Flouw has been pretty much nowhere in both.



The quota system is actually not valid until the world cup in 2019 but until then, AC will try his best to select as if it is in place, after all there is no use in grooming a team for four years, only to be forced into making changes in 2019 for the world cup.

How it works is this:
50% of the team has to not be white, so black people and coloured people all count here - note that coloured is a non-derogatory ethnic label in South Africa for people of mixed race (coloured people in South Africa can actually get offended if you call them mixed race). This means players like JP Pietersen, Lionel Mapoe, Elton Jantjies, Bryan Habana etc.
Of that 50%, 60% have to be local ethnic black people, so essentially 30% minimum ethnic black - these are people like Lwazi Mvovo, Trevor Nkayane, and Siya Kolisi (Not Tendai Mtawarira since he is Zimbabwean).


So the reason why us Saffers are worried about the inclusion of Combrink, is that it means if we start him ahead of Mvovo, we need to make space somewhere else in the team for a black player.

the thing that gets me is that what most saffers are upset about are really just combrink not getting a chance on the wing and the fact that they can't bring a bring in a reliable backup hooker, is it really worth hurting the team just so you can get two more non-whites into the 23

as most have probably noted that have seen my posts on the topic before i am strongly on favor of more non-whites being included in the springboks but it just seems that the quota system just makes sure that non-whites will be on the wing, props, and a few other places

so essentially non-whites are being funneled into a few positions and those positions will very rarely see a white player, seems an odd way to make rugby more inclusive if you have white and non-white positions

anyway the quota system is bull**** (everyone knows this) but i guess most politicians would rather put a band aid on a problem than actually get young non-whites involved in rugby... now that they are allowed to be selected on the springbok team and it is no longer a surprise or something that ****** off a whole bunch of people, you'd think they'd move onto the next step in increasing black involvement in SA rugby

 

[Sker]

the thing that gets me is that what most saffers are upset about are really just combrink not getting a chance on the wing and the fact that they can't bring a bring in a reliable backup hooker, is it really worth hurting the team just so you can get two more non-whites into the 23

as most have probably noted that have seen my posts on the topic before i am strongly on favor of more non-whites being included in the springboks but it just seems that the quota system just makes sure that non-whites will be on the wing, props, and a few other places

so essentially non-whites are being funneled into a few positions and those positions will very rarely see a white player, seems an odd way to make rugby more inclusive if you have white and non-white positions

anyway the quota system is bull**** (everyone knows this) but i guess most politicians would rather put a band aid on a problem than actually get young non-whites involved in rugby... now that they are allowed to be selected on the springbok team and it is no longer a surprise or something that ****** off a whole bunch of people, you'd think they'd move onto the next step in increasing black involvement in SA rugby

You'd only be able to understand if you live in South Africa. Logic and/or common sense is not a strong point. This does not apply to any race. Be it white, black, coloured or whatever else. All of them are absolute ***ing morons. Sometimes I dream of moving to another country, then it turns into a nightmare when I realise people are just as stupid there.

 

[JohnKA]

the thing that gets me is that what most saffers are upset about are really just combrink not getting a chance on the wing and the fact that they can't bring a bring in a reliable backup hooker, is it really worth hurting the team just so you can get two more non-whites into the 23

as most have probably noted that have seen my posts on the topic before i am strongly on favor of more non-whites being included in the springboks but it just seems that the quota system just makes sure that non-whites will be on the wing, props, and a few other places

so essentially non-whites are being funneled into a few positions and those positions will very rarely see a white player, seems an odd way to make rugby more inclusive if you have white and non-white positions

anyway the quota system is bull**** (everyone knows this) but i guess most politicians would rather put a band aid on a problem than actually get young non-whites involved in rugby... now that they are allowed to be selected on the springbok team and it is no longer a surprise or something that ****** off a whole bunch of people, you'd think they'd move onto the next step in increasing black involvement in SA rugby

The entire bok team can be black and I will support them 100% but they must be picked on merit , our sport minister has banned us from bidding for the 2023 world cup because he feels that there is not enough black players in the bok team ( http://www.ofm.co.za/article/nation...ng-major-events-due-to-lack-of-transformation ) our rugby is really managed by the government and not the coach

 

[TRF_heineken]

can someone explain exactly how the quota system works? specifically who counts as black, how many in the 15 need to be black and how many of 23 need to be black?

from what i've heard in previous comments it sounds like all of the good non-white players don't actually count as being black; Beast, Habana, JPP etc.

Before this thread gets derailed. May I refer you to the several threads with regard to this topic of transformation in South African Rugby:
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/36197-SA-rugby-in-trouble/page6?highlight=transformation
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/36866-Transformation-in-Springbok-Rugby-Sports-Minister-Quotes-from-the-Post-WC-conf?highlight=transformation
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/37577-South-African-Rugby-teams-transformation-report?highlight=transformation
http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/37721-Afriforum-and-Solidarity-launches-quot-No-to-Quotas-quot-website?highlight=transformation

 

[unrated]

I realize there was hypocrisy in my statement but there is a reason behind it. I still back opinion that if the player does not perform then he should be dropped . The problem is that both Louw and Kolisi was bad . Kolisi was worse . We don't have the players in the squad to drop both. And it would be a bad move to replace both flankers. So that my reasoning in keeping Louw in the squad even though I said that players out of form should be dropped. Kolisi cost us much more than Louw did. Louw might have been absent but he diid not give away multiple penalties not did he lose the ball on numerous occasions.