June International Tests: Argentina vs. England (1st Test) (10/06/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Estadio del Bicentenario
Time: 21:15 (CAT, SA GMT+2)​

 

[MarkyH]

When is the team announced? Looking forward to this series as much as I am the Lions.

Strong breakfast game for the Lions game in the morning, strong drinking game in the evening for the Eng Argentina game. BBC2 I think to

 

[TRF_Olyy]

EJ has said Solomona is fit, but Robshaw is 50/50 (said flip a coin for him).
If Robshaw is out it'll be interesting to see the make-up of the backrow what with the Currys and Underhill barely being out of nappies.
I'd like to see Wilson given a shot at the 6 shirt, really rate him and have done for a while.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
2. Dylan Hartley, c (Northampton Saints, 84 caps)
3. Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 42 caps)
5. Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
6. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
8. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 8 caps)

15. Mike Brown, vc (Harlequins, 60 caps)
14. Marland Yarde (Harlequins, 11 caps)
13. Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 5 caps)
12. Alex Lozowski (Saracens, uncapped)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 25 caps)
10. George Ford, vc (Bath Rugby, 35 caps)
9. Danny Care, vc (Harlequins, 71 caps)

16. Jack Singleton (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
17. Matt Mullan (Wasps, 15 caps)
18. Will Collier (Harlequins, uncapped)
19. Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, uncapped)
20. Don Armand (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
21. Jack Maunder (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
22. Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
23. Denny Solomona (Sale Sharks, uncapped)




Like it, though I'd have had any other option other than yarde on the wing.
Very green pack, And I don't rate ewels, but no lack of talent

 

[ratsapprentice]

Strangely disappointed in that.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

When you've got Ford, Lozowski and Slade all starting do you really need Francis on the bench? Would rather have seen Devoto, Mallinder or James. Also very disappointed by Yarde over Earle, would've even had Cokonasiga over him. Overall a good squad but not what I'd have liked.

 

[Samuel Bates]

Personally I am disappointed about Brown always being a guaranteed starter, It's time to give some younger/less experienced fullbacks some international game time as Brown may be getting on a bit for the next World cup. With Slade, Loz and Mallinder all being options at
Fullback on this tour-and Haley another option, we have plenty younger talent who could be possible Fullbacks in the future. I would also argue for Armand starting over Wilson.

 

[Reiser99]

Tbh for me it's only the back row, 9 and 15 that are of concern in the main squad, so those are the positions I'm interested in. With Wilson, Curry and Armand, at least they are being tested. Maunder could make an impact off the bench, but not too daring. As for Brown...why is he undroppable?

Overall it feels like Jones has tried to be adventurous and then backed down slightly and not quite committed to it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

My guess is that EJ views Watson as his next fullback so doesn't see the need to try someone new this tour. He'd rather keep the stability of the experienced man at 15 when the rest of the backline is brand new.
(Though I'd argue there s next to no stability in a backline with both May and Brown as they've shown repeatedly they can't work together)

When you've got Ford, Lozowski and Slade all starting do you really need Francis on the bench?

Fair point, 4 flyhalves in a 23 is a bit much

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Tbh for me it's only the back row, 9 and 15 that are of concern in the main squad, so those are the positions I'm interested in. With Wilson, Curry and Armand, at least they are being tested. Maunder could make an impact off the bench, but not too daring. As for Brown...why is he undroppable?

Overall it feels like Jones has tried to be adventurous and then backed down slightly and not quite committed to it.

TBF of the people on the tour, who do you put at FB instead of him? Slade, Loz and Mallinder have all gotten game time there for their clubs but none are really fullbacks and wouldn't really be worth developing in the position until they're playing there full time. IMO not taking Haley was a mistake but we've known he wouldn't be playing for a couple of weeks, this isn't news. It's a shame that Watson and Daly are both away with the Lions, this would've been the perfect opportunity to get them some game time at 15.

Really good to see Tom getting a run out, I assume Underhill's not fit? Agree with Sam that I'd prefer Armand over Wilson but it's a marginal call and Armand's ability to cover the whole back row as well as lock probably made him a more suitable bench option.

Not a fan of that midfield either. I like having a play-making centre but having 2 of them seems excessive with very little striking ability. Would've preferred Devoto or Mallinder to get in over one of them, probably Loz as Slade has experience at centre and Loz can cover 10, 12 and 15 from the bench.

Those 2 props are exciting though. I'd say that both have the potential to be in the 23 at the next World Cup. Williams seems to have the right combination of scrummaging ability and work in the loose that we've been lacking in a THP. Genge is just an animal and could definitely overtake Marler with a couple of good seasons.

Worrying that by the end of this tour Singleton will have more caps than Taylor...

 

[Superalexmarket]

Jonny and Joe outside the Hotel, very nice guys.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Me when I see Care, Ford, May, Lozowski, Slade and then see Yarde and Brown.

Also Francis is just as much of a 12 as Mallinder and Devoto TBF.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Me when I see Care, Ford, May, Lozowski, Slade and then see Yarde and Brown.

Also Francis is just as much of a 12 as Mallinder and Devoto TBF.

Jones has said he's touring as a 10.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Jones has said he's touring as a 10.

And?

He can still play 12. Lozowski will be our 15 cover.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Jonny and Joe outside the Hotel, very nice guys.
View attachment 5206

Sure that's not Danny and Joe?

Don't get the point of Yarde. Not sure on injury position, but maybe the intention is to see how Robshaw and Underhill gel as a pair in the next game. Great opportunity for the 2 props, either or both could force their way into the 15 for Japan, let alone the 23.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

And?

He can still play 12. Lozowski will be our 15 cover.

Well my point was that a 10 wasn't needed on the bench. You said Francis can play 12, which is true, but Eddie's said he's touring as a 10 so will likely come on at 10. And if not, he's unable to cover 13 which Devoto and Mallinder both can which is why I'd prefer them on the bench over Francis.

 

[Superalexmarket]

 

[Goodey]

How many Argentinians are not getting picked solely due to playing in Europe?

Imhoff, Isa... anyone else?

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

How many Argentinians are not getting picked solely due to playing in Europe?

Imhoff, Isa... anyone else?

This guy is always banging on about the issue without acknowledging the other side of the argument. He lists some names here.

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/06/08/americas-missing-xv/

That Pumas lineup should be looking for a win here, it is a strong selection capable morning scoring many points against an English defence that will have never played together before.

But I just can't see them turning round their recent dire showings for the Jaguares. You can't just switch performance on and off.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Bosch, Lobbe, Carriza, Figallo, Galarza, Leonardi, and a long etc. but the most relevant are Isa and Imhoff.