June International Tests: New Zealand vs. Samoa (16/06/2017)

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Seems this thread hasn't been created, sooooo guess I'll do it...

1st hit out of the year for the ABs, which is always interesting. I hope we don't see a repeat of the match in Samoa 2 years ago where we were well underdone and played like crap. I don't think we will. This team has everyone available and will be playing for spots in the Lions series, so we should see a good level of performance.

It's a chance to get some fluidity in our combinations going before the Lions series, so I'm guessing we'll see pretty much our top team, barring maybe those who they don't wanna risk injuring.

Kaino is expected to play, so I really hope he gets through unscaved and shows some form. Idk what the go with Retallick is re. his head issues, but I hope like hell he's good to go. IMO he's our most valuable player.

Both the wingers need big games. Naholo was excellent vs the Lions and has probs been showing better form than Savea all season, so The Bus will really be playing for his spot. I assume Dagg will be on the other wing... he hasn't been very impressive in the short time he's had since returning from injury, so this match will be crucial for him to get some form. If he ends up being crap then it leaves us with a bit of a back 3 dilemma... we'd either have to go with Savea and Naholo on the wings or Bender on a wing. I'm not the biggest fan of either of those options, however the idea of Savea and Naholo on the wings is growing on me.

I expect the side to look something like this:
15. Bender
14. Dagg
13. ALB
12. SBW
11. Bus
10. Barrett
9. Smith
8. Savea
7. Cane
6. Kaino
5. Whitelock
4. Retallick
3. Franks
2. Harris
1. Moody

16. Taylor
17. Crockett
18. Faumuiina
19. Barrett
20. Todd
21. Perenara
22. Sopoaga
23. Barrett

I'm going ABs by 40.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Samoa team:

 

[Welshdragon2000]

Samoa team:

On paper that looks a strong side. I've been really impressed by Fonotia for the Ospreys this season so hopefully he can replicate his club form for Samoa.

 

[thegreat one]

My brain says NZ by 70 but my heart is really hoping for Samoa to come up with something. Anything under 40 is an achievement lol

 

[Penne Rara]

I thought Nanai-Williams was still injured?

 

[thegreat one]

apparently not?

I thought Nanai-Williams was still injured?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

All Blacks team to play Samoa named

The match day 23 is (with Test caps in brackets. * denotes new cap):

1. Joe Moody (24)
2. Codie Taylor (15)
3. Owen Franks (90)
4. Brodie Retallick (60)
5. Samuel Whitelock (84)
6. Jerome Kaino (77)
7. Sam Cane (40)
8. Ardie Savea (12)
9. Aaron Smith (58)
10. Beauden Barrett (49)
11. Julian Savea (52)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (33)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (9)
14. Israel Dagg (61)
15. Ben Smith - captain (60)

16. Nathan Harris (4)
17. Wyatt Crockett (58)
18. Charlie Faumuina (46)
19. Scott Barrett (4)
20. Vaea Fifita*
21. T J Perenara (29)
22. Lima Sopoaga (6)
23. Jordie Barrett *

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Good to see Fifita in there, I'm a big fan of his.

Ardie Savea at 8 seems off. I get that he's played a few games there for the Hurricanes but he's just so small. Would it have been worth calling up Ioane? I reckon so, the Maoris have ample back row cover.

Beyond that it's hard to pick any holes. SBW + ALB should be a hell of a centre pairing, I'm very excited to see what they can do. I assume Naholo's not been included due to playing mid-week rather than just not being in the team? His form has earned him a spot over any of Savea, Dagg or Jordie IMO. On Jordie, good to see him in but seems like a slight waste of experimentation IMO. By that I mean that Smith is clearly gonna play the tests at FB, and if he's injured it'll clearly be Dagg, Jordie's not gonna start. I think it would've made more sense to give either Rieko or Laumape a run out as they could both force their way into the test team. Jordie's still very young, he'll get plenty of opportunities in the future so why rush him in? Because I don't really think that you can say that off of this season he deserves the shirt more than Laumape, Rieko or Naholo. Just a little thing.

Is Jordie centre cover? He hasn't played 12 for the Canes yet this season has he? Seems odd to have a specialist FB on the bench when Barrett and Dagg are both fully capable of covering. The more I think about Jordie being there the more I disagree with it.

 

[Radsy]

I agree completely @TobyBeastTeague re: Jordie.

I'm thinking that they want to give him a soft first cap in the inevitable blow out, second half. Given that he likely won't feature in any of the tests, this is a cute way of keeping the Barrett brothers story line alive for another day. It would seem there are much more pressing needs. Also, once again.... Damien>>>Jordie. Can't believe they aren't selecting the best counter-attacking player in the world to play against the aerial bombardment they will face v the Lions. He's the perfect- break the glass in case of emergency #23.

 

[Penne Rara]

I agree completely @TobyBeastTeague re: Jordie.

I'm thinking that they want to give him a soft first cap in the inevitable blow out, second half. Given that he likely won't feature in any of the tests, this is a cute way of keeping the Barrett brothers story line alive for another day. It would seem there are much more pressing needs. Also, once again.... Damien>>>Jordie. Can't believe they aren't selecting the best counter-attacking player in the world to play against the aerial bombardment they will face v the Lions. He's the perfect- break the glass in case of emergency #23.

I agree with you on Damian's ability to pierce through tired defences as if they weren't there. Jordie's more a "glue" player who can mend a squad by automatically fitting in a position when there isn't any other backup. Maybe he suits Hansen's immediate plans? I hope Damian can make the ABs squad later during the tour

 

[Penne Rara]

Good to see Fifita in there, I'm a big fan of his.

Ardie Savea at 8 seems off. I get that he's played a few games there for the Hurricanes but he's just so small. Would it have been worth calling up Ioane? I reckon so, the Maoris have ample back row cover.

Beyond that it's hard to pick any holes. SBW + ALB should be a hell of a centre pairing, I'm very excited to see what they can do. I assume Naholo's not been included due to playing mid-week rather than just not being in the team? His form has earned him a spot over any of Savea, Dagg or Jordie IMO. On Jordie, good to see him in but seems like a slight waste of experimentation IMO. By that I mean that Smith is clearly gonna play the tests at FB, and if he's injured it'll clearly be Dagg, Jordie's not gonna start. I think it would've made more sense to give either Rieko or Laumape a run out as they could both force their way into the test team. Jordie's still very young, he'll get plenty of opportunities in the future so why rush him in? Because I don't really think that you can say that off of this season he deserves the shirt more than Laumape, Rieko or Naholo. Just a little thing.

Is Jordie centre cover? He hasn't played 12 for the Canes yet this season has he? Seems odd to have a specialist FB on the bench when Barrett and Dagg are both fully capable of covering. The more I think about Jordie being there the more I disagree with it.

I hope he plays as a second five during this tour. He's always played in that position, especially for his college 1st XV. Knowing his talent, he would naturally understand how to play as a flanker if he was told to. Just lacks the physique...

He also knows just as well how to play as a center, and that extends to his ability to cover the right wing. He scans space, looks for the soft spot and runs into it then offloads the ball. While Naholo breaks defenses really well, Barrett has a better assett: he sees space in all directions and his decision making can potentially become top notch. Let's see what he has up his sleeve.

 

[Maxwell]

Samoa team:

As a long time Manu fanatic Im totally underwhelmed by our team particularly in the forwards. In fact the bench looks stronger than the starting pack with a few exceptions. A lot has to do with unavailability the names of those missing is significant and include Zak Talaufo, Logivi Mulipola, - some Motu Matuu, James Johnston, Anthony Perenise, big Joe Tekori - some big guys with big match experience. Paul Alo-Emile is a good scrummager and certainly much better than Afatia who is soft. Im shocked to see Levave ahead of Faosiliva who lacks the dynamic explosive play of the latter who gave the All Blacks hell last time they played.

As mentioned its staggering to see Tim Nanai-Williams selected who has had a long term injury. Is Alama that desperate ? Especially when we have Ken Pisi fresh from his UK season. Nikoro is small and not overly quick and Tuala similarly isn't lightning quick which all modern fullbacks are.

This team is a shadow of the one that really competed well against the AB's at Apia Park and I fear for the scoreboard attendant with a potential cricket score looming although I hope Im wrong.

Real disapppointed

 

[bazwaz]

[QUOTE="
As mentioned its staggering to see Tim Nanai-Williams selected who has had a long term injury. Is Alama that desperate ? Especially when we have Ken Pisi fresh from his UK season. Nikoro is small and not overly quick and Tuala similarly isn't lightning quick which all modern fullbacks are.

Real disapppointed[/QUOTE]

As a Hurricanes supporter you should be familiar with how dangerous the Chiefs boys can be

 

[Radsy]

Nanai-Williams was close to returning in the last couple Chiefs games, so it's not a huge surprise.

 

[bazwaz]

Is Jordie centre cover? He hasn't played 12 for the Canes yet this season has he? Seems odd to have a specialist FB on the bench when Barrett and Dagg are both fully capable of covering. The more I think about Jordie being there the more I disagree with it.

I think Jordie played inside centre for the U20s...but there is also the argument that any fullback is the complete rugby player - good on attack and reliable in defence as the last line of defence...
...not that i'm a big fan of his but now he's an AB he needs to start clocking up some mileage in the AB jersey and start proving his worth...

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

1. Joe Moody (24)
2. Codie Taylor (15)
3. Owen Franks (90)
4. Brodie Retallick (60)
5. Samuel Whitelock (84)
6. Jerome Kaino (77)
7. Sam Cane (40)
8. Ardie Savea (12)
9. Aaron Smith (58)
10. Beauden Barrett (49)
11. Julian Savea (52)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (33)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (9)
14. Israel Dagg (61)
15. Ben Smith - captain (60)

16. Nathan Harris (4)
17. Wyatt Crockett (58)
18. Charlie Faumuina (46)
19. Scott Barrett (4)
20. Vaea Fifita*
21. T J Perenara (29)
22. Lima Sopoaga (6)
23. Jordie Barrett *

So I was pretty on the money then... It's cool to see Fifita getting a shot, he's had a bit of a stop start season but is a good player.
I expected Jordie to be on the bench, so that's not surprising. He provides more cover than Ngani...
I think too the fact that Aaron has been picked ahead of TJ is indicative of who's won that selection battle, same with Harris vs Taylor.

Ardie Savea at 8 seems off. I get that he's played a few games there for the Hurricanes but he's just so small. Would it have been worth calling up Ioane? I reckon so, the Maoris have ample back row cover.

Ardie goes pretty well at 8, and against this Samoa team it really doesn't matter... I think it makes more sense to give Akira a good crack at the Lions through the Maoris.

I assume Naholo's not been included due to playing mid-week rather than just not being in the team?

Yup it was always the plan to give him the Landers game so that Savea and Dagg could get crucial game time vs Samoa. I think Naholo has played himself into the test 15 at this point, it'd big performances from Bus and Dagg in this match to change that IMO.

Jordie's still very young, he'll get plenty of opportunities in the future so why rush him in? Because I don't really think that you can say that off of this season he deserves the shirt more than Laumape, Rieko or Naholo. Just a little thing.

Ngani only provides midfield cover, whereas Jordie provides both this and back 3 cover, which gives us more options. Rieko and Naholo weren't considered for this match. I fully expect both of them to be in the 23 for the Lions. I'm fairly certain that Rieko will be no.23 for the series.

I hope he plays as a second five during this tour

Not gonna happen, we have three specialist 12s as is... I would definitely like to see him get some game time there in the future though... might be tough though with Ngani rightfully locking down that Canes 12 jersey and probs ABs jersey in the near future.

 

[thegreat one]

As a long time Manu fanatic Im totally underwhelmed by our team particularly in the forwards. In fact the bench looks stronger than the starting pack with a few exceptions. A lot has to do with unavailability the names of those missing is significant and include Zak Talaufo, Logivi Mulipola, - some Motu Matuu, James Johnston, Anthony Perenise, big Joe Tekori - some big guys with big match experience. Paul Alo-Emile is a good scrummager and certainly much better than Afatia who is soft. Im shocked to see Levave ahead of Faosiliva who lacks the dynamic explosive play of the latter who gave the All Blacks hell last time they played.

As mentioned its staggering to see Tim Nanai-Williams selected who has had a long term injury. Is Alama that desperate ? Especially when we have Ken Pisi fresh from his UK season. Nikoro is small and not overly quick and Tuala similarly isn't lightning quick which all modern fullbacks are.

This team is a shadow of the one that really competed well against the AB's at Apia Park and I fear for the scoreboard attendant with a potential cricket score looming although I hope Im wrong.

Real disapppointed

Man, I know what you mean. I've been an avid supporter of the Manu ever since they nearly toppled England back in 2003.

The 2011 squad was the best, I think had they picked Eliota F.S at 10 against Wales, instead of Tasesa Lavea, then we would've won and who knows where we would've gotten to.

We had a solid scrum, good set piece, good halves and some good leaders - Kane Thompson, Dan Leo, Kahn Fotualii, Tusi Pis and Seilala Mapusua. There hasn't been so much balance since then.

Some politics and corruption, destruction of coaching structures and rejection of a number of players who should've been picked between 2012 and 2015 has led us to this point.

It's a good squad but I think we're really missing leadership in the forwards, particularly come lineout. The spine of the team is too old as well and there's no one around to replace them.

Apart from the injured and unavailable players, where's guys like Filo Paulo, Sinoti Sinoti, Alofa Alofa, Winston Stanley, Mike Stanley, Peter Saili and Joe Tekori?

Bloody could've done well had some of them injured boys been included, especially someone like Mulipola.

Just wanna see Samoa shine, been waiting 14 years for this lol anyway back the boys regardless.

 

[thegreat one]

Sorry forgot to mention Mahonri Schwalger, Samoa's best captain ever, all heart

1. Alo Emile
2. Matu'u
3. Mulipola
4. F Paulo
5. Chris Vui
6. Faasalele
7. J Lam
8. P Saili/Tuifua (V Tuilagi)
9. Fotualii (Falealili)
10. Pisi (M Stanley/D'Angelo Leuila)
11. Sinoti Sinoti (Alofa Alofa)
12. Rey Lee Lo
13. Kieron Fonotia
14. Alapati Leiua
15. T Nanai Williams

16. Cencus Johnston
17. Ole Avei (Elia Elia)
18. Afatia
19. Lemalu
20. F Levave
21. Tuala
22. Pele Cowley/Jeremy Sua

I put who I'd like to see next year and leading up to the world cup in the mix. Would love some super rugby players and uncapped dudes from europe there too - melani nanai etc. think someone like Henry Taefu is someone to watch for the future too. Pat Lam for coach

 

[GoTheNaki]

Just announced on NZ radio. With Malakai Fekitoa's failure to make the ABs squad at all. He's looking at options of going to France. At the end of the season....... Wow.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Just announced on NZ radio. With Malakai Fekitoa's failure to make the ABs squad at all. He's looking at options of going to France. At the end of the season....... Wow.

And so he should IMO. Might as well cash in while he can. I doubt he has a future in the ABs.