[June Tests 2018: 1st Test] South Africa vs. England (09/06/2018)

[Big_Grumper]

Simmonds and Curry are not 6's IMO.

Talk is Genge had a injury not sure how accurate that is.

Who would you have at 6, @Tigs Man ?

 

[Yoshimitsu]

So the morning after.....

Those kind of losses can do more damage than a whistle to whistle shellacking at the hands of a superior outfit which in my view South Africa are not. For all the smashy crashy stuff and pace we've got this, was a top two inches game and England just don't have it. As someone mentioned above Plan B was Plan A but more of it. That's incredibly frustrating. We persist with keeping the ball in play from kicks. Some statsman somewhere has calculated that this is a good plan and we stick with it despite the evidence in front of our eyes that perhaps giving the ball to Willie le Roux (well played sir) is best avoided. In my view South Africa effectively won that game with a couple of stand-out performances from Le Roux and De Clerk. They lit the fire and England simply let it spread and at times actually fanned the flames (not a yellow card but just don't be a dick Mako). Fair play to the rest of the Boks for rising to the occasion.

It appears to have become horribly old fashion to slow the game down a bit to your own advantage. England have actually dispensed with tactical control completely. It's all very well having belief that it'll come good but we're finding out that even if it does it's often too late. At 24-3, some territory and set pieces would have duller the ardor of the Saffers and that was what was required. If you're happy your defence is good enough (errr) then defending up the pitch is a pretty decent way of tiring a team out and frustrating them. Letting them just run it back from aimless kicking is just stupid.

It's sad to see an ageing heavyweight continue beyond the point at which it's clear that whatever they had is gone. No I'm not talking about the Gypsy King (Jesus! that was a hard watch) but Chris Robshaw. That single game alone showed why he shouldn't be near the squad anymore. He'll never ever give less than 100% and that's to be admired but if that effort is largely ineffective, time is up.

What to say about Mike Brown? This, "you're not quick enough Mike!". Fair play for the try, not many score that but watching Le Roux size up Mr Brown gave me the fear. On toast. Every time.

Just a question. The scrum penalty where we got our arses handed to us. Was that when we were playing with one legitimate lock (which is funny given recent history of playing about 5)? It's almost like there could be some correlation.

Maro has caught Haskellitis. It can't be cured I'm afraid, not without a long course of treatment along the lines of "Stop giving away ******* penalties or you are dropped".

The ref - not the cause, but too many poor decisions. Though before someone has a pop about this being a nationality based thing he was nowhere near as bad as Luke Pearce in the NZ vs France game!

Finally to just to echo the Jonny May man love. Almost every time he gets the ball the first words out of my mouth are "What the **** are you doing? Where the **** are you going? Not there Jonny! Run forwards you arsehole" only to have the anxiety dissipate as he does something absolutely ludicrous. Like jog past international wingers and fullbacks. It is going to go wrong but he's quite fun to watch in a behind the sofa kind of way.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Who would you have at 6, @Tigs Man ?

Honestly Shields, he was alright IMO playing out of position and he was a big lineout taker which is a major bonus for a 6.

 

[unrated]

The interpretations of breakdown laws are different betw een the SH and NH. When i saw its a NZ ref i was happy because i knew we would have a good understanding of what was expected and i knew o keefe would (understand?) us. That's how it should be with home advantage, you get a ref with the same law interpretations in terms of the NH/SH divide. When we play in England then they can get (and they do) a NH ref where SH has struggled in the past.

For the next game in Bloemfontein we get Romain Poite. He is our worst nightmare along with that other awful ref named Jerome Garces. No disrespect to the French, very nice country, nice landscape, nice wine and champagne, but worst refs in world rugby by a long shot.
Also they schemed and lobbied so hard to take the next world cup away from South Africa i feel that French refs should be banned from South Africa as a retaliatory measure. So yea NH ref for the next game in the series, expect England to benefit more from the interpretations as there is a difference.


I was impressed with Daly and May in the England squad. Farrel seems an odd choice for captain? He he is probably one of your better players but not sure of the mentality i witnessed last night. He moaned constantly (He obviously has that right, i'm not taking anything away). Maybe instead focus on the recovery? if Etzebeth or Kolisi or Whiteley acted the same way as him last night then our media would have ripped them apart.

 

[General Melchett]

It really wouldn't surprise me to see Gatland walking straight into the England job after his contract with the WRU is up.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

It really wouldn't surprise me to see Gatland walking straight into the England job after his contract with the WRU is up.

Most definitely not, I don't think they would bother exteding Eddie's contract for a transitional period if we were gonna get an experienced HC... More likely Baxter/McCall or someone like that

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I really don't agree with taking Gustard on this tour - we've been defensively suspect for a while and Gustards on his way out anyway.

Painful though it was it was great to see attacks on top; the dominance of defenses in recent times has often left me thoroughly bored by rugby. Really admire faf and Willie and the pace they put on the game - we couldn't live with that.
It was really a shitshow of indiscipline and individual errors. Dalys mistake at the back, Itojes mistake before that where he tried to jackle the ball but lost his footing and fell into the ruck leaving an unguarded tryline...
Some players simply need to be dropped until they sort themselves out discipline wise, but equally if our coaches can't instill that discipline then they are the problem as much as any player.
Robshaw and Brown are done, or should be.
Most referees need binning too.
Think we'll actually win the next game due to Poites breakdown interpretation which should allow us to stay in possession.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It appears to have become horribly old fashion to slow the game down a bit to your own advantage. England have actually dispensed with tactical control completely. It's all very well having belief that it'll come good but we're finding out that even if it does it's often too late. At 24-3, some territory and set pieces would have duller the ardor of the Saffers and that was what was required.

Well said. There's been a nasty outbreak of Southern Hemisphereitis. Sometimes you just need to do the simple things and then put the the ball in row Z. Highlights reel no, a way to win a match, yes. That kind of control is down to the half backs.

Good rugby's about doing the right thing at the right time. Youngs and Ford have enough experience now for us to be able to expect them to control a match from a winning position.

 

[The5thOfficial]

From a literary point of view, having read this thread from start to finish you couldn't make it up - the highest of highs and lowest of lows.

I see EJ making friends and influencing people again, in the tunnel after the game!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Well said. There's been a nasty outbreak of Southern Hemisphereitis. Sometimes you just need to do the simple things and then put the the ball in row Z. Highlights reel no, a way to win a match, yes. That kind of control is down to the half backs.

Good rugby's about doing the right thing at the right time. Youngs and Ford have enough experience now for us to be able to expect them to control a match from a winning position.

To be fair - they were trying to do that. Daly' fluffed two kicks too long, and Youngs didn't find touch at least twice, maybe three times.
That's quite a lot....

 

[TommiG88]

I think Daly was trying the dab the ball down, when in reality it was easier to slide and smother.

 

[Big_Grumper]

@Tigs Man I'm happy with Shields at 6. I think I got my numbers mixed up. I'd have Curry at 7 and Simmonds at 8.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think Daly was trying the dab the ball down, when in reality it was easier to slide and smother.

Think he simply missed it, regardless of what he was trying to do... bounce of the ball and all that.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I think Daly was trying the dab the ball down, when in reality it was easier to slide and smother.

It's unreasonable to expect perfection, but full backs live or die by fine margins. In terms of outcome I guess absolutely best case is that Daly regathers the ball and his feet, beats 15 defenders over runs 100 over metres and scores the best try ever. Probability several hundred million to one against. At the other end of the scale is failing to deal with the ball and allowing SA to score. I think you're right Daly attempted to secure the 22 rather than a defensive 5 m scrum. That's flawed thinking in my view in the game situation. Sure SA may score in the subsequent phases of play but they have to execute in order to so. I like Daly a lot but that error and the over hoofing contributed a significant amount to that defeat. Hopefully he'll learn.

 

[Big_Grumper]

When is the squad for next Saturday's game announced?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

When is the squad for next Saturday's game announced?

Same again I guess - Thursday at 12.30

 

[Reiser99]

I think I've said it elsewhere, but my biggest concern is England's complete inability to adapt and play whats in front of them. As people have highlighted, when things go wrong and whether or not the ref is being harsh, they just end up complaining instead of trying to fix it. The management don't seem to have a plan B and the players can't think for themselves.

 

[ratsapprentice]

They don't even seem to complain that much though, they just accept it and do nothing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Think he simply missed it, regardless of what he was trying to do... bounce of the ball and all that.

Bounce of the ball can do anyone, but maybe it was the difference between a talented footballer playing fullback and a fullback playing fullback. As well as the kicks I think there was also one high ball he went up for, got nowhere near and knocked on.

Fullback's one of the critical positions in the spine of the team where you need someone rock solid and confidence instilling - why I've been a big fan of Rob Kearney over the years. I'd say 2, 8, 9 & 10 are the others in the spine.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Those two things are not really positional... as a winger he does both.