• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] Australia vs. Ireland (23/06/2018)

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

Folau gets 1 match ban for as @RedruthRFC stated it has been for multiple yellow card offences.
Yes the lifter has a duty but no point singling Stander to protect Folau. As I stated it earlier this is ongoing for years, the famous Beast lifts for SA and Sharks, Cian Healy is very good at lifting on his own. John Hayes was famous for lifting alone at lineouts.

Yes that rule needs to be addressed and while I agree with Alpha that no offence was red card level they were all fairly easy to show how they were yellow card offences per the laws.
 

RedruthRFC

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
1,908
Reaction score
255
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

and consider yourself lucky. had u gotten a second yellow card on the day you would've been red carded.

Indeed, this is exactly what the ban is saying should have happened.
 

Derpus

Bench Player
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
763
Reaction score
366
Country Flag

Australia

Club or Nation

Waratahs

He
Yep... 100%

"We've had presentation after presentation around what goes and what doesn't. We've had [referee] Angus Gardner in here and he's shown us video of what goes, what doesn't.

"We're really clear on what we think you're allowed to do and not allowed to do. I think they just need to revisit it themselves, probably."


And I'll bet my bottom dollar that in NOT ONE of those presentations was a video showing (and nor will Angus Gardner have told them) that it is OK to grab the opponent when you fail to catch the ball, and hold onto him as you come back down, which is EXACTLY what Folau did when he got the yellow card, and for the incident for which he has been cited.

The answer is simplicity itself,.... by all means jump to compete for possession, but if you don't get your hands on the ball, KEEP THEM OFF YOUR BLOODY OPPONENT!
He wasn't cited for this and his wasn't for a red card offense. It was for repeat infringing. Which is curious because he really did only grab onto the player once, and was duly punished. You could argue that he should have seen red with some merit (though god i hate reds).

But that wasn't what the judiciary argued. It's all very perplexing.

For every other challenge, Folau was in a realistic position to get the ball and was challenging fairly. It was the single lift that created the danger.

In the end, though, i think they'd prefer to keep the single lift and punish Folau. Because Folau is basically the only one who can jump like that, but anyone can do a single lift.
 

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

He

He wasn't cited for this and his wasn't for a red card offense. It was for repeat infringing. Which is curious because he really did only grab onto the player once, and was duly punished. You could argue that he should have seen red with some merit (though god i hate reds).

But that wasn't what the judiciary argued. It's all very perplexing.

For every other challenge, Folau was in a realistic position to get the ball and was challenging fairly. It was the single lift that created the danger.

In the end, though, i think they'd prefer to keep the single lift and punish Folau. Because Folau is basically the only one who can jump like that, but anyone can do a single lift.
No he was cited for 3 offences but the 2 main 1's were not his yellow card offence.
He was shown to have pulled our dragged in the air dangerously on all of them. With evidence it must be added.

The judiciary report again (they were all in agreement) that all the offences combined were a red card (3 Yellows).
Also it was shown the single lifter put the player straight up but Folau was the 1 (with 2 of the incidents a clear pull) put him in danger by putting him off balance.

Folau wasn't punished for the jumps it was for the pulls so maybe if he didn't pull, which if you read the report clearly states what the ban is for, he wouldn't have been banned.

I genuinely have never heard a team whinge so much and blame everyone but themselves over the last year.
And I've seen a hell of a lot of Eddie Jones.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,740
Reaction score
7,346
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

If two players jump for the ball and neither know the other is there, somehow it's still their fault if they collide.

If a player is looking to catch the ball and someone jumps into him, the player on the floor gets banned, even if he didn't know the other guy was jumping.

If a player picks someone up in the tackle then another player joins the hit and causes the tacklee to flip, the initial tackler gets banned even though he did nothing wrong.

The single lifter is putting the player into a dangerous position and not bringing him back down safely.

World rugby is already unfairly butt ******* anyone who wants to compete for the high ball, might as well start banning everyone else as well.
 

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

If two players jump for the ball and neither know the other is there, somehow it's still their fault if they collide.

If a player is looking to catch the ball and someone jumps into him, the player on the floor gets banned, even if he didn't know the other guy was jumping.

If a player picks someone up in the tackle then another player joins the hit and causes the tacklee to flip, the initial tackler gets banned even though he did nothing wrong.

The single lifter is putting the player into a dangerous position and not bringing him back down safely.

World rugby is already unfairly butt ******* anyone who wants to compete for the high ball, might as well start banning everyone else as well.
Bit Olyy that is wrong on the lifter. He put him up straight. Foley was 1 that threw him off that straight lift by an action that would still have happened if there were 2 lifters.
As I said if Foley was banned for just a collision then fair enough. But he blatantly and I mean blatantly pulled POM.
Now the single lifter debate may be 1 of plenty views on each side but at moment it actually just an excuse trying to overshadow the fact Folau did an offence.
Seriously I'm shocked at the amount of sour grapes and whinging over this. If they put half the effort in on the training pitch that they have over past few week2s and months whinging they'd beat the All Blacks consistently
 

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

Irrelevant, It's outcome not intent these days.
Picked him up, didn't put him down.
Ban.
Well he couldn't as Folau pulled him.
It's same as lineout. If 1 or 2 lads lift and the opposition lad pulls him then it's the lad that pulled is punished. Same here. It is actually clear to see it.
The lifter wasn't allowed bring him back safely due to recklessness from another player. If Folau didn't commit reckless acts POM would be returned safely. It really is that clear
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,740
Reaction score
7,346
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

Well he couldn't as Folau pulled him.

So?
The precedent has been set, you can be completely powerless to do anything about a situation and still be banned for it.

The whole system is a cesspool.
 

RedruthRFC

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
1,908
Reaction score
255
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

So?
The precedent has been set, you can be completely powerless to do anything about a situation and still be banned for it.

So we wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't for Folau's illegal act - POM would have been returned to the ground safely, thus folau is the miscreant here. @munstermuffin great example, I don't see why the Folau situation is any different, so the question follows for @TRF_Olyy, are you saying that lineout lifters should be banned if the jumper they're lifting is played in the air illegally and lands badly? Also, who was powerless to do anything about what?
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,740
Reaction score
7,346
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

If we're banning people based on outcome and not intent, then yes.


I think the rulings on competition for the high ball are a ******* joke, i'm pointing out that if apply the same logic to elsewhere it becomes more apparent.
 

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

So?
The precedent has been set, you can be completely powerless to do anything about a situation and still be banned for it.

The whole system is a cesspool.
No. If Folau didn't dangerously pull a player after the chance to win the ball was gone there'd be no ban.

The precedent for him is simply don't pull a player in the air.

And it was on intent he was banned not outcome. Yes POM went off after 3rd bit was fine after 1st 2 but they are still yellow card offences. Hence the ban.

As I said Folau should have competed and not follow through with pull.
I am shocked that his ban is even debatable as it is a clear ruling that has been in effect for a long time already
 

ratsapprentice

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
12,106
Reaction score
793
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

So we wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't for Folau's illegal act - POM would have been returned to the ground safely, thus folau is the miscreant here. @munstermuffin great example, I don't see why the Folau situation is any different, so the question follows for @TRF_Olyy, are you saying that lineout lifters should be banned if the jumper they're lifting is played in the air illegally and lands badly? Also, who was powerless to do anything about what?

If he wasn't being held up in the air by Stander, he would likely have landed perfectly safely.
 

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

If he wasn't being held up in the air by Stander, he would likely have landed perfectly safely.
False. As he was off balance and off feet and pulled at angle he'd have still landed badly as was stated in the judicial hearing. Quite plainly.
Seriously this was all well explained and as I said it seems it was a very easy decision to be made that 1. A ref and all his team agreed, then judicial officers agreed after fast deliberations, then an appeal committee upheld very rapidly too.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,740
Reaction score
7,346
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

No one actually thinks he should be banned lol,

The laws are a ******* shambles, is the main point. If you can ban most of these in air collisions then you can ban pretty much anyone in the game.
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,002,740
Reaction score
7,346
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

True, but irrelevant to establishing wrongdoing. What Stander was doing was within the laws of the game.
So is trying to catch the ball, yet if someone jumps into you you can get red carded and banned
 

munstermuffin

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
14,188
Reaction score
623
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Munster

Objectively true.

So is trying to catch the ball, yet if someone jumps into you you can get red carded and banned
Lads. What part are ye missing.
The ban was for repeated offences. Like 2 yellows make a red. That is why he was banned.
And for last time it wasn't the attempt to catch the ball. It was after when he pulled POM in the air on 3 occasions.
Which part aren't you getting.
 

Primary

The Rugby Forum Assistant
Here are some related products that The Rugby Forum members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to The Rugby Forum’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to The Rugby Forum discussions about these products.

 
 
Top