[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] Australia vs. Ireland (23/06/2018)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Folau gets 1 match ban for as @RedruthRFC stated it has been for multiple yellow card offences.
    Yes the lifter has a duty but no point singling Stander to protect Folau. As I stated it earlier this is ongoing for years, the famous Beast lifts for SA and Sharks, Cian Healy is very good at lifting on his own. John Hayes was famous for lifting alone at lineouts.

    Yes that rule needs to be addressed and while I agree with Alpha that no offence was red card level they were all fairly easy to show how they were yellow card offences per the laws.
     
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  3. mania

    mania Senior Member

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  4. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    Indeed, this is exactly what the ban is saying should have happened.
     
  5. Derpus

    Derpus Senior Member

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    He
    He wasn't cited for this and his wasn't for a red card offense. It was for repeat infringing. Which is curious because he really did only grab onto the player once, and was duly punished. You could argue that he should have seen red with some merit (though god i hate reds).

    But that wasn't what the judiciary argued. It's all very perplexing.

    For every other challenge, Folau was in a realistic position to get the ball and was challenging fairly. It was the single lift that created the danger.

    In the end, though, i think they'd prefer to keep the single lift and punish Folau. Because Folau is basically the only one who can jump like that, but anyone can do a single lift.
     
  6. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    No he was cited for 3 offences but the 2 main 1's were not his yellow card offence.
    He was shown to have pulled our dragged in the air dangerously on all of them. With evidence it must be added.

    The judiciary report again (they were all in agreement) that all the offences combined were a red card (3 Yellows).
    Also it was shown the single lifter put the player straight up but Folau was the 1 (with 2 of the incidents a clear pull) put him in danger by putting him off balance.

    Folau wasn't punished for the jumps it was for the pulls so maybe if he didn't pull, which if you read the report clearly states what the ban is for, he wouldn't have been banned.

    I genuinely have never heard a team whinge so much and blame everyone but themselves over the last year.
    And I've seen a hell of a lot of Eddie Jones.
     
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  7. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    If two players jump for the ball and neither know the other is there, somehow it's still their fault if they collide.

    If a player is looking to catch the ball and someone jumps into him, the player on the floor gets banned, even if he didn't know the other guy was jumping.

    If a player picks someone up in the tackle then another player joins the hit and causes the tacklee to flip, the initial tackler gets banned even though he did nothing wrong.

    The single lifter is putting the player into a dangerous position and not bringing him back down safely.

    World rugby is already unfairly butt ******* anyone who wants to compete for the high ball, might as well start banning everyone else as well.
     
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  8. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Bit Olyy that is wrong on the lifter. He put him up straight. Foley was 1 that threw him off that straight lift by an action that would still have happened if there were 2 lifters.
    As I said if Foley was banned for just a collision then fair enough. But he blatantly and I mean blatantly pulled POM.
    Now the single lifter debate may be 1 of plenty views on each side but at moment it actually just an excuse trying to overshadow the fact Folau did an offence.
    Seriously I'm shocked at the amount of sour grapes and whinging over this. If they put half the effort in on the training pitch that they have over past few week2s and months whinging they'd beat the All Blacks consistently
     
  9. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Irrelevant, It's outcome not intent these days.
    Picked him up, didn't put him down.
    Ban.
     
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  10. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Well he couldn't as Folau pulled him.
    It's same as lineout. If 1 or 2 lads lift and the opposition lad pulls him then it's the lad that pulled is punished. Same here. It is actually clear to see it.
    The lifter wasn't allowed bring him back safely due to recklessness from another player. If Folau didn't commit reckless acts POM would be returned safely. It really is that clear
     
  11. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    So?
    The precedent has been set, you can be completely powerless to do anything about a situation and still be banned for it.

    The whole system is a cesspool.
     
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  12. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    So we wouldn't be having the discussion if it wasn't for Folau's illegal act - POM would have been returned to the ground safely, thus folau is the miscreant here. @munstermuffin great example, I don't see why the Folau situation is any different, so the question follows for @TRF_Olyy, are you saying that lineout lifters should be banned if the jumper they're lifting is played in the air illegally and lands badly? Also, who was powerless to do anything about what?
     
  13. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    If we're banning people based on outcome and not intent, then yes.


    I think the rulings on competition for the high ball are a ******* joke, i'm pointing out that if apply the same logic to elsewhere it becomes more apparent.
     
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  14. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    No. If Folau didn't dangerously pull a player after the chance to win the ball was gone there'd be no ban.

    The precedent for him is simply don't pull a player in the air.

    And it was on intent he was banned not outcome. Yes POM went off after 3rd bit was fine after 1st 2 but they are still yellow card offences. Hence the ban.

    As I said Folau should have competed and not follow through with pull.
    I am shocked that his ban is even debatable as it is a clear ruling that has been in effect for a long time already
     
  15. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Senior Member

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    If he wasn't being held up in the air by Stander, he would likely have landed perfectly safely.
     
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  16. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    False. As he was off balance and off feet and pulled at angle he'd have still landed badly as was stated in the judicial hearing. Quite plainly.
    Seriously this was all well explained and as I said it seems it was a very easy decision to be made that 1. A ref and all his team agreed, then judicial officers agreed after fast deliberations, then an appeal committee upheld very rapidly too.
     
  17. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    No one actually thinks he should be banned lol,

    The laws are a ******* shambles, is the main point. If you can ban most of these in air collisions then you can ban pretty much anyone in the game.
     
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  18. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Senior Member

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    Objectively true.
     
  19. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC Senior Member

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    True, but irrelevant to establishing wrongdoing. What Stander was doing was within the laws of the game.
     
  20. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    So is trying to catch the ball, yet if someone jumps into you you can get red carded and banned
     
  21. munstermuffin

    munstermuffin Senior Member

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    Lads. What part are ye missing.
    The ban was for repeated offences. Like 2 yellows make a red. That is why he was banned.
    And for last time it wasn't the attempt to catch the ball. It was after when he pulled POM in the air on 3 occasions.
    Which part aren't you getting.
     
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