[June Tests 2018: 3rd Test] New Zealand vs. France (23/06/2018)

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by TRF_heineken, Jun 18, 2018.

  1. Immenso

    Immenso Academy Player

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    Interesting to compare the movements of the halfbacks in these 2 similar situations in the match. Although the top gif is second half and Lacey may be more conscious where he's standing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  3. FrenchFan

    FrenchFan First XV

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    yes we've seen the replay here as well. Nothing to write home about. Accidental. No bearing on the outcome of the game.

    The union charade took off where they left in the 6 Nations. They were poor in every facet of the game. They can't string 3 passes together. The line-out was a shambles etc. In 3rd test they managed to keep 15 players on - Yet they were comprehensively outclassed.

    NZ were without Barrett and a few 1st starters. McKenzie plays fullback yet he gave a masterclass playing out of position as a 10 with a flawless display. Three tries came out from simple moves straight out of training.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  4. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    The comment was isolated to that incident.
     
  5. FrenchFan

    FrenchFan First XV

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    And you didn't know what French fans really think or feel. Now you do.
     
  6. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    I know that if it was a club game we'd be hearing of anti-French conspiracies... I know the player won't be happy with being impeded... I know that trying to blame the union for that one incident is petty...
     
  7. FrenchFan

    FrenchFan First XV

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    Didn't blame the union for the incident. And it's the medias outside of this country that are blathering their own conspiracy theories, which is hilarious.

    Over here we're having too much fun taking the **** out of the union...
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  8. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    i admit we are past whether the right decision was made, it has been shown there is no rule etc, i concede.

    BUT...the fact that, as in this vid, so many people feel the need to support the claim with he was beat so no effect to me shows they know it doesn't feel right...the vid is rubbish.

    he says he was beat and there was a "gap as big as the Champs Elysees" outside Dmac

    upload_2018-6-26_7-26-32.png

    to me this looks like two defenders outside Dmac and at the time of pass (see DMac turning towards smith to receive the pass) there is only a couple of meters to cover to get DMac and Serin was already running into the ref.

    No, i dont think it was guaranteed he would have got him but i think its just as likely as he wasn't going to get him. if the ref didn't need to get out of the way and there is no rule to bring him back lets just say that and be done rather than make rubbish by predicting the future to justify it in hindsight.

    its embarressing
     
  9. Immenso

    Immenso Academy Player

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    If Serin moved in a legal way to plug the gap he wouldn't have touched Lacey.

    Instead he moved sideways, instead of back and across.

    Serin initiated the contact, and he initiated it before the ball was even out.

    Serin's fault 1000%.

    Optics look really, really real bad. I agree. But once people have had the time to look and think. To still bag Lacey? Pathetic.

    Great try ruined. Yip.

    It's moved from "that's unlucky but them the non-rules". To "actually, it's their own bloody fault".

    But spare me any tears for France on that play. Thoughts and prayers to Lacey who has made the cardinal sin of refereeing an All Blacks match. The poor fella.
     
  10. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    And in any case, Serin was offside. The scrumhalf cannot move away more than 1m from the scrum while ahead of his offside line before the scrum has ended. He had moved well away from the scrum and started to push Lacy well before Smith took the ball out.
     
  11. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    I’m out, I just feel we’re quoting the rule book more and more to explain things that at first glance did not feel right. Yes these things are 100% correct but they just don’t feel like the game I’ve always enjoyed

    I don’t enjoy controversy in rugby and feel rules should feel fair and yet it seems most people on here now think the win is more important than watching a good game of rugby
     
  12. OneBlackEye

    OneBlackEye Academy Player

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    I like it when people quote the rule book when they are talking about the rules and wish they would do it more.

    I do agree with your general sentiment though, but I think people are pointing out the actual laws to highlight how ridiculous they often are and I think that's more constructive than talking about what feels right.

    Ultimately if we want want the laws to make more sense, make rugby more enjoyable to watch and less controversial then all the conversations and media focus after these tests should be about law changes and clarifications. But they aren't, they are about bias referees and other nonsense.
     
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  13. OneBlackEye

    OneBlackEye Academy Player

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    4. The Moaning English
     
  14. Immenso

    Immenso Academy Player

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    I actually think we're partly in some agreement. Some of the post below is a general rant rather than directed at your posts.

    I'm sick of the controversey as well. I didn't enjoy that try one little bit. Yet it was a 100% perfectly executed set move by NZ to wheel the scrum, isolate the halfback from his blindside flanker and run that channel, yet it was optically spoilt and felt a bit hollow.

    But this wasn't caused by Lacey's own bad positioning. It was caused by Serin trying to crab out too far before the scrum was even complete and then move sideways (inside the 5m) rather than retreat onside back the 5m.

    Yet Lacey is getting all the blame.

    I agree about your comment that "the rules should feel fair", and in the future something like this might happen where the player isn't to blame and the referee is to blame. If that was the case I wouldn't be happy with the "he wouldn't have got there anyway" argument. Under current rules there doesn't appear to be anyway to redress this. IMO that is a valid discussion.

    But IMO the unlucky France / inept Lacey narrative is a false narrative. Lacey is the unlucky one, he's being made out to be the clumsy inept fool.

    I understand the urge, it was my initial reaction too, it's such a rare occurrence almost no one knew the rules. But;
    1. I now know the rules
    2. I believe the fault was with Serin

    Yet if you do a google search of John Lacey referee;

    Rugby: Referee blunder hurts France once again
    New Zealand Herald · 2 days ago

    Referee John Lacey slammed on Twitter after another controversial ...

    Referee John Lacey heavily criticised after awarding New Zealand ...
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk › Sport › Rugby › New Zealand rugby

    'I could have tackled' - French furious at refereeing howler
    RugbyPass-23/06/2018

    French perplexed why referee didn't cancel McKenzie try

    Watch: Referee Blocks French Tackler, Awards New Zealand Try ...
    https://www.balls.ie/rugby/john-lacey-391463

    Lacey the latest under fire as All Blacks scorch in for 7 tries against ...
    www.the42.ie/lacey-referee-all-blacks-france-4087598-Jun2018/



    I've gone several pages in and yet to see one that says" Actually, Lacey was both right and even if he was wrong he was powerless"
     
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  15. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    just clarifying I realise within the rules he did nothing wrong and was 100% correct...just wish he wasn’t there so dmac could beat serin cleanly or serin could make the tackle on at or the other
     
  16. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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  17. FrenchFan

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    Hilarious:D Think the BBC was taking the mick considering how well the union did...

    I have no idea what the union gets out of the series. There is nothing to salvage for Brunel.

    The union are stuck in their own time warp. Somehow They think they have the 'team' to take on NZ in their own backyard when they haven't mounted a competitive challenge to the Six Nations in the last 8 yrs.
    Their selection policy is non existent. It's just a hit and miss affair every season regardless of who is national selector. They rounded up the players that hadn't gone on holiday. In reality it's the clubs that are doing all the players management.
    Brunel went to the 6N with one group and took another one to NZ with very little to show other than 3 drubbings. No continuity from November to June.
     
  18. RedruthRFC

    RedruthRFC First XV

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    Have you listened to the podcast in question? It strikes me that this is more likely to be Sports Joe's mistake. If it is the BBC, then it's close to unforgivable that one didn't notice the other's mistake and correct them.
     
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