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Just heard a suggestion for a change to the knock on rule.

Scotty

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Ill start by saying im not really for all this rule changing and constantly playing with the rules, partly because it leaves casual rugby fans in the dark and partly because we just dont need to play around with it...so dont bite my head off im just curious what people think.

So Eggchasers podcast had JP Doyle the Irish ref on there this week and when asked about knock ons he suggested if a knock on occurs then its a Penalty to the opposition if the offending team picks up the ball, much like knocking on into your own player who plays the ball rule.

The benefit would be if a ball is lost it's the opposition that gets the ball every time and can counter attack. As it stands if the ball is lost forward a player from the offending team dives on it, play stop and we have a scrum. (Obv a forward pass is different and not subjected to the penalty rule so scrums are mostly forward passes while reducing knock on scrums)

Same advantage rule

Reduced scrums
More oppotunities for coubter attack
More flowing rugby.
 
Not sure i like it. These changes tend to have unforseen effects more often than not.
The problem i have with knock-ons as the laws stand today is when one team has a very dominant scrum. Team A knocks the ball, scrum, team B feeds, penalty for team A, which happens to be the original infractor.
I know there is (a lot of) merit in scrummaging, but team B is just cornered. They get severely punished not only for their own knock-ons (i'm fine with that) but for the opposition's too (i am not fine with that).
Potentially (realistically too, let's be honest) team A could start knocking the ball on purpose (not obviously, otherwise ref steps in) and milk penalties and yellow cards.

In theory this suggestion could help with this issue, but i am not sure.

With all of the above in mind, if you had to split times practicing scrummaging vs open rugby as a coach, how much time would you allocate to each? There's your answer.
 
Personally I just think knock ons should just give the option of a free kick or scrum.
Was about to say this. Leave the quick tap available and be quick to march 10m if players don't give the ball back.

Not sure a change is needed at all really though. The problem is how long scrums are taking rather than how many are happening.
 
I would definitely agree that scrums are the issue. I'm all for if the scrum doesn't move almost immediately then the highest sanction against a team can be a free kick. This would stop majority of scrums where the ball is just left in there to try and milk a penalty. It would also limit how much impact a dominant scrum can have over a weaker one. If you just have to have parity for the start and it is a fair contest, then you can't give away more than a free kick. This would also likely mean less cynical scrums where players try to pull it down, especially when one side is weaker as they know if they compete properly then they can't give away a penalty.

I think penalties for offending team after a knock is harsh as while some knocks on are obvious, others are a lot less so and you don't want to risk the opposition getting the ball and counter attacking while you're busy trying to work out if you'll give away a penalty or not. You already have enough penalties from offsides after a knock on, this would be too extreme. I might be behind the idea of quick taps and 10 metres for cynical play, but might be hard to police what is cynical and what is genuinely a player not sure what has happened.
 
Ill start by saying im not really for all this rule changing and constantly playing with the rules, partly because it leaves casual rugby fans in the dark and partly because we just dont need to play around with it...so dont bite my head off im just curious what people think.

So Eggchasers podcast had JP Doyle the Irish ref on there this week and when asked about knock ons he suggested if a knock on occurs then its a Penalty to the opposition if the offending team picks up the ball, much like knocking on into your own player who plays the ball rule.

The benefit would be if a ball is lost it's the opposition that gets the ball every time and can counter attack. As it stands if the ball is lost forward a player from the offending team dives on it, play stop and we have a scrum. (Obv a forward pass is different and not subjected to the penalty rule so scrums are mostly forward passes while reducing knock on scrums)

Same advantage rule

Reduced scrums
More oppotunities for coubter attack
More flowing rugby.
god no, the last thing we need is more penalties, i personally think the number of things that have become penalties over the years is whats killing the game

scrumming is a perfectly normal part of the game, no need to try and have less, just let them play out more often rather than re setting. If the front row goes up or dawn and assuming not dangerously, play on or if you blow it up then a free kick.
 
god no, the last thing we need is more penalties, i personally think the number of things that have become penalties over the years is whats killing the game

scrumming is a perfectly normal part of the game, no need to try and have less, just let them play out more often rather than re setting. If the front row goes up or dawn and assuming not dangerously, play on or if you blow it up then a free kick.
I dont think it would lead to more penalties tbh.(exept for the transition when the rule is new) soon as they stop just diving on the ball then a knock on will just be played on with opposition possession in open play, if we coupled that with shorter advantages then there will be less stoppages at all.

Though i do agree with your point fully on scrums, ive always thought if it gets to the back and the scrum isnt moving forward or back then if it collapses it should just be play the ball. Also i dont want to eliminate scrums just less (for foward passes and accidental offsides ect) btw but they are a restart for the game which when collapse can take so long especially in winter.
 

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