Kirwan - Ditch Super Rugby

[QLD]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/interna...gby-says-Kirwan

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

EXCLUSIVE: JOHN Kirwan has called for New Zealand to abandon Super Rugby and get back to the tribalism of its provinces as well as explore lucrative Japanese options to retain leading All Blacks in their region.

Kirwan sees a future where current All Blacks can ply their trade in money-rich Japan and still play tests for New Zealand.

As the All Blacks invade Tokyo for their Bledisloe Cup clash with Australia this week, All Blacks' great Kirwan was promoting links between New Zealand and Japan where he coaches the national team.

An open critic of the Super 14 â€" "it's a flawed competition" â€" Kirwan believes New Zealand is better to concentrate on its traditional provincial strength and look at developing a Heineken Cup-styled competition in the Pacific which would allow Japanese clubs to pay the wages of some All Blacks rather than lose them forever to the European scene.

Kirwan's comments are pertinent at a time when the complicated three-way Sanzar arrangement can't even agree on where their expansion team for next year's Super 15 should be based, going to arbitration to sort out the merits of Melbourne or South Africa's Eastern Cape.

They also come as the Air New Zealand Cup regains its glory and the Ranfurly Shield is housed in Invercargill.

Thrilled to see Tokyo hosting the Bledisloe and delighted with their 2019 World Cup hosting rights, Kirwan isn't happy with talk of Japan getting involved in Super Rugby down the line. And he doesn't think it's good for his beloved New Zealand either.

"I believe that New Zealand needs to get back to tribalism and traditionalism," Kirwan said.

"I think the public have stood up and said that this year.

"They have got in behind their provincial teams because they get it.

"What I have proposed to Australia and New Zealand is they break off and play an NRL-style competition between the two countries â€" eight provinces from New Zealand and five from Australia.

"They play that all year but, as they do in Europe, they break every six weeks or so and play a Heineken Cup Super rugby series where we can include an Island team, four or five Japanese teams, a side from the east coast of America.

"That way we play domestic and international tournaments.

"Unfortunately, with this idea we might have to leave the South Africans behind or they come in that Super series. But I think the sooner New Zealand get back to tribalism and provincialism the better New Zealand rugby will be."

Kirwan said Japan rugby was booming and could offer New Zealand more than New Zealand could offer them.

"To be honest we don't need anyone else from a financial and a growth point of view," Kirwan said. "Our top league is in good shape, we have fantastic sponsors, it's wealthy.
Ad Feedback

"What we don't have at the moment is competition at a certain level. But it's how you get that â€" I believe in a strong domestic competition.

"I think the Super 14/15 is very good for Australian rugby because they have never had a domestic competition. But it's taking away from what New Zealand is all about and I don't want to make that mistake in Japan."

Under Kirwan's plan, which has been aired with New Zealand and Australian officials, All Blacks playing for top Japanese clubs could still be eligible to play test rugby because they would be playing in a competition alongside New Zealand provinces.

"What Australia and New Zealand need to do is to marry us because we do have the money," Kirwan said. "We are paying Stephen Larkham and George Gregan probably as much as any of the imported players are getting overseas.

"I think if New Zealand included the Japanese into their thoughts, then you can keep some of your topline players. You don't have to worry about losing them to England.

"Every six weeks the All Blacks coaches can see them play â€" they will be playing against Canterbury, Auckland and NSW. New Zealand can open up their borders and say they can pick people if they are playing in that Pacific competition.

"That way New Zealand can still keep their topline players playing for the All Blacks and earning what they need to earn."[/b]

I agree with him, Aus-NZ comp then a Hein-Cup format inc. SA would be better.

 

[Bullitt]

Methinks he'll end up having a falling out with John O'Neil soon over this one...


FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

 

[O'Rothlain]

It's the better idea. I think the H-Cup has proven that (please no arguments, I'm not saying NH Rugby is better than SH Rugby, let's please leave that debate alone). The ANZ is such a great tournament, as is, and I hate to admit it, the Currie Cup. Boosting a more provincial tourney in Aus (like the Shute Shield) to that same level (which they attempted with the Mazda Cup or whatever like 2 years ago) would be brilliant. Rupert Murdoch won't be happy about it...

 

[gho]

NZ doesnt have the financial might to maintain all those provincial teams. With there population they can support the 5 they have now and possibly another team in auckland. How are towns with such small population going to get the necessary sponsors and gate receipts to pay for their team and top players?

 

[Bullitt]

That's easy - When there are more teams, there won't be as many "big" stars all packed into just 1 side -instead spread over the whole league - and the overall wage package for the entire squad will be reduce. Then, there will be more space for youngsters to play(in turn outplaying the so-called stars in the process) and more talent will develop as a result.

 

[Steve-o]

Easier said than done. Especially keeping big name players in NZ. Major sponsorship is a must.

 

[C A Iversen]

Which is what Kirwan is saying Japan would help us with if we were in a comp with their top 2-3 sides. They have deep pockets for the game and they'd be willing to work more co-operatively with releasing players for international duties and even allowing them Air New Zealand Cup time. It could be awesome. Especially with South Africa currently taking 70% of the Super Rugby money on it's own and Australia and NZ taking a cut each of the remaining 30%.

I think we'd be surprised how well it'd work and it'd be interesting to see how much of the 70% that South Africa currently gets would be offered to them for competing in another comp. Japan seem the less greedy option with this idea.

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Oct 28 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Which is what Kirwan is saying Japan would help us with if we were in a comp with their top 2-3 sides. They have deep pockets for the game and they'd be willing to work more co-operatively with releasing players for international duties and even allowing them Air New Zealand Cup time. It could be awesome. Especially with South Africa currently taking 70% of the Super Rugby money on it's own and Australia and NZ taking a cut each of the remaining 30%.

I think we'd be surprised how well it'd work and it'd be interesting to see how much of the 70% that South Africa currently gets would be offered to them for competing in another comp. Japan seem the less greedy option with this idea.[/b]

Isn't that because SA makes up >70% of the viewing figures though?

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Oct 28 2009, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Oct 28 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is what Kirwan is saying Japan would help us with if we were in a comp with their top 2-3 sides. They have deep pockets for the game and they'd be willing to work more co-operatively with releasing players for international duties and even allowing them Air New Zealand Cup time. It could be awesome. Especially with South Africa currently taking 70% of the Super Rugby money on it's own and Australia and NZ taking a cut each of the remaining 30%.

I think we'd be surprised how well it'd work and it'd be interesting to see how much of the 70% that South Africa currently gets would be offered to them for competing in another comp. Japan seem the less greedy option with this idea.[/b]

Isn't that because SA makes up >70% of the viewing figures though?
[/b][/quote]

A large part of that viewership is watching Australian and NZ teams competing against yours.

That should really not be the justification for such greed. It should be a factor, yes, but along with number of teams competing from each country and averaged results from each country. Australia and NZ put just as much into the comp and get a lot less out of it. Thats the kind of greed which has feeds the rich only.

South Africa would end up getting more, but not as much more as they get. Besides, it sounds like Japan are more cash rich than us, bigger viewing numbers and they'd be happy to share.

 

[Jethro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Oct 28 2009, 07:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Oct 28 2009, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Oct 28 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is what Kirwan is saying Japan would help us with if we were in a comp with their top 2-3 sides. They have deep pockets for the game and they'd be willing to work more co-operatively with releasing players for international duties and even allowing them Air New Zealand Cup time. It could be awesome. Especially with South Africa currently taking 70% of the Super Rugby money on it's own and Australia and NZ taking a cut each of the remaining 30%.

I think we'd be surprised how well it'd work and it'd be interesting to see how much of the 70% that South Africa currently gets would be offered to them for competing in another comp. Japan seem the less greedy option with this idea.[/b]

Isn't that because SA makes up >70% of the viewing figures though?
[/b][/quote]

A large part of that viewership is watching Australian and NZ teams competing against yours.

That should really not be the justification for such greed. It should be a factor, yes, but along with number of teams competing from each country and averaged results from each country. Australia and NZ put just as much into the comp and get a lot less out of it. Thats the kind of greed which has feeds the rich only.

South Africa would end up getting more, but not as much more as they get. Besides, it sounds like Japan are more cash rich than us, bigger viewing numbers and they'd be happy to share.
[/b][/quote]

Actually the vast amount of finances are put up by South African companies.

Like what Kirwan is saying but still needs Saffa involvement imho.

Reduce the Super 14 back to Super 10 and introduce his new competition imho.

 

[Steve-o]

Japan isn't this land of gold and honey some people are making it out to be. Rugby, although popular among universities, isn't that well established. I'll be surprised if their viewing numbers are half of what Australia gets. Also another reason SA gets a big share of Super Rugby profit is because we are in the European timezone. Therefore we secure a very large combined viewership (SA + EURO)

 

[QLD]

Australia wouldn't have their own provincial championship, but have 5 teams in the NPC. The NH format is way better.

 

[Nickdnz]

I've got an idea...let's keep South Africa. Why? Because they provide some of the best competition in the world. They contribute to large amounts of the sponsorship. Because like in other threads have said, Australia isn't taking Union that seriously at all. I have all ready pointed out a solution on another thread, with many if and buts added, however Japan alone does not provide solid enough competition. We would be better off pouring a crap load of money in a domestic competition, and I do mean a crap load, get rid of Super Rugby, make a Heineken Cup style comp, in which the best domestic teams from both the Curry Cup, ANZC and include the Australian franchises and even throw the Japanese clubs in there as well. That way SA get their Curry Cup (but only for the sake of arguement 4 of those teams can make it to the "Nickdnz Cup", 4 teams from the ANZC can make it to the "Nickdnz Cup", 4 Teams out of Australia's non exsistand domestic comp make it into the "Nickdnz Cup", and 2 teams from Japanese Clubs make it into the "Nickdnz Cup", with maybe a few added teams from other countries such as maybe 2 teams from say Argentina and maybe 1 from US or w/e. This way Japanese sponsors will be happy, because they can now sponsor teams in this joint competition, NZ and SA will be happy because their domestic comps will be healthy, Australians wont be happy because they have not domestic competition, but I don't really mind that, and other rugby nations can be happy because they get to participate in a majour tornement. Again I went into bigger detail, however we need SA, and the only changes to everyones domestic competition will be an added level of professionalism, with a big side competition, and no teams will be cut at all.

 

[QLD]

we can keep south africa, just have a Aus-Nz comp (NPC) and let SA go back to its historic CC. The best teams from both competitions and the best Japan team playing in a HCUP format (call it the super cup). Problem solved.