League of Nations

[bushytop]

The 6 Nations is the cash cow for participating countries and nobody will want to give that up. Is it possible to have relegation from the World League yet not be relegated from the 6 Nations?

For example, Italy finish bottom of both the 6 Nations and World League and are relegated from the latter. Georgia win promotion to the World League yet don't get access to the 6 Nations.Georgia play all other 11 teams in the World League in tests but Italy retain their place in the 6 Nations competition and continue to play England, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

Probably not as the 6N results have an impact on the overall standings of the World League.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Probably not as the 6N results have an impact on the overall standings of the World League.

In this case Georgia would still play all the 6 Nations countries bar Italy. Likewise England, France, Ireland Scotland and Wales would all play Georgia. These results would count towards the World League. Games against Italy would count against the 6 Nations.

 

[bushytop]

In this case Georgia would still play all the 6 Nations countries bar Italy. Likewise England, France, Ireland Scotland and Wales would all play Georgia. These results would count towards the World League. Games against Italy would count against the 6 Nations.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the proposal then as I thought that the games against the other 6 nations within the 6N (or Rugby Championship in the South) are the results that carry over to the overall league table. During the summer and autumn windows (whether they actually remain in those time frames is unknown) would be games against the teams from the 'other hemisphere'... as well as the finals. As I said though, maybe I got this wrong.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Could just do some Churchill Cup type tournaments around the world on Lions years as a start.

Two six nations teams play in Europe, two in Asia, two in America. The three other Rugby Championship sides spilt up the same way and then you get local T2 sides in. (You'd assume they'd use it to build a wider squad rather than sending out full strength teams to romp home easily)

More needs to be done but this way you're introducing somewhat meaningful games in the most meaningless part of the RWC cycle and there's plenty of opportunities for T2 to win games against weakened top tier sides. It's better than the World League and better than nothing!

 

[munstermuffin]

So if Pacific Island boycott RWC will we see maybe a breakaway and 2 organisations. I get a feeling French clubs will back a breakaway then and it will be hard to see where it ends up in terms of money and less international scene vs an international scene diluted

 

[bushytop]

Could just do some Churchill Cup type tournaments around the world on Lions years as a start.

Two six nations teams play in Europe, two in Asia, two in America. The three other Rugby Championship sides spilt up the same way and then you get local T2 sides in. (You'd assume they'd use it to build a wider squad rather than sending out full strength teams to romp home easily)

More needs to be done but this way you're introducing somewhat meaningful games in the most meaningless part of the RWC cycle and there's plenty of opportunities for T2 to win games against weakened top tier sides. It's better than the World League and better than nothing!

It's a sound idea in theory but it's obviously been tried before (in various formats) and never really gripped the pubic imagination (of any of the countries involved). My opinion is was viewed as at best a development series and at worst placating the little fellas.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

So if Pacific Island boycott RWC will we see maybe a breakaway and 2 organisations. I get a feeling French clubs will back a breakaway then and it will be hard to see where it ends up in terms of money and less international scene vs an international scene diluted

The NRL will pounce. They're looking to expand to Western Australia and put another team in greater Brisbane or along the Sunshine Coast. To do that they'll need players. What better way to help fill these teams that with talent from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's a sound idea in theory but it's obviously been tried before (in various formats) and never really gripped the pubic imagination (of any of the countries involved). My opinion is was viewed as at best a development series and at worst placating the little fellas.

It was also advertised as such and was a yearly competition, like it was the Maori and 'A' sides but that's not what I'm suggesting.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Easier said than done mind...

Considering they're running into huge issues every step of the way with this world league itd probably be a walk in the park.

Just say every Autumn/Summer international period has two games vs tier 1 and two games vs tier 2.
Done.

 

[munstermuffin]

The NRL will pounce. They're looking to expand to Western Australia and put another team in greater Brisbane or along the Sunshine Coast. To do that they'll need players. What better way to help fill these teams that with talent from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga.

100% agree. And well equally the fact you could have more repetition of top tier matches is not a good thing either.

 

[bushytop]

Considering they're running into huge issues every step of the way with this world league itd probably be a walk in the park.

Just say every Autumn/Summer international period has two games vs tier 1 and two games vs tier 2.
Done.

I think it's gonna come down to incentive at the end of the day... and it 'appears' as if the powers that be at world rugby have been offered an annual luxury yacht-load of incentives if they can push this through. There will be some compromises, depending on both public and player opinion... but imho it's gonna happen (much like in Welsh rugby, the WRU will succeed in getting a Northern region going, regardless of the alienation it will cause in Swansea and it's surrounding areas... simply because it is their current agenda).

 

[Thingimubob]

Considering they're running into huge issues every step of the way with this world league itd probably be a walk in the park.

Just say every Autumn/Summer international period has two games vs tier 1 and two games vs tier 2.
Done.

This makes the most sense for me - if you want to make the games "meaningful" you could stick WC qualifying on it and all.

For example - remember reading that Wales had to play Spain, Portugal, Romania and Italy in order to qualify for the '95 world cup. Ahead of RWC '99 England played Italy and the Netherlands, Ireland played Romania and Georgia etc.

There were some blow outs sure, but Tier 2 nations are probably far stronger across the board now (at least compared to then), and would at least guarantee Tier 2 sides access to games vs Tier 1 sides.

 

[smartcooky]

I had a far better idea than this which I posted some years ago.

It was essentially a formalisation of the June Tours and Autumn Internationals that would have required no additional games to be played.

If I can find it, I'll repost it here.

OK, I found it. This was an idea that myself and another forumer (Kiwilinzi from back in the IRB Forum days) came up with. I have rewritten it a little since it was back in the days of the Tri-Nations and the IRB.

SUPER SEVEN and MINOR SEVEN: A Bi-annual International Premiership of Rugby

The idea of this competition is to formalise the current Autumn Internationals and the July Tours, and very importantly it would require no additional matches to be played. The National Unions involved would pay their own costs (since they already do now anyway for AIs and JTs). World Rugby may have to set up a Super Seven Rugby sub-organisation (Super Seven Rugby Ltd?) to arrange sponsorship and TV rights.

1. At the end of each 6N, the top seven ranked teams in the world (at that point) are identified and drawn to play each other once over the following 12 months.

2. The Super Seven is held every two years (not in a World Cup year and not in a Lions Tour year).

3. Each of the seven teams will play six matches (three home, three away).

4. Six Nations and Rugby Championship matches (if applicable) would also count as Super Seven matches. In the case of The Rugby Championship, the last of the two matches would count as the Super Seven match.

5. Table points would be awarded in the usual way; 4 points for a win, 2 for a draw 0 for a loss plus 1 bonus point for 4 tries and 1 bonus point for a close loss (7 or less).

6. There is no promotion/relegation as such. Instead, teams qualify for the Super Seven on their ranking points.

7. There would be no final. Top of the table wins the Super Seven Premiership.

8. Matches would count for 1.5X the world ranking points, so Unions who send weakened teams to the opposite hemisphere would stand to get hammered in the rankings, and risk dropping out of the competition the following year (not to mention potentially risking their seedings for the next RWC.

NOTES:

• If the AIs and STs were to be formalised in this way, their value would be hugely greater than they are now, being part of a recognised competition.

• The matches outside of 6N and RC would be played in the arranged international windows, so player availability should not be an issue, but in any case where it was, World Rugby would have to enforce Regulation 9.

• The profits (TV rights etc) made from this competition could be used to help pay for a similar competition for the teams ranked 8 to 14 (the Minor Seven) where ranking points would also count 1.5x their normal value.

• The competition would not preclude matches between Super Seven teams and Minor Seven teams (or Minor Seven teams and those teams ranked below 14) but these matches would only count for normal ranking points if applicable.​

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

OK, I found it. This was an idea that myself and another forumer (Kiwilinzi from back in the IRB Forum days) came up with. I have rewritten it a little since it was back in the days of the Tri-Nations and the IRB.

SUPER SEVEN and MINOR SEVEN: A Bi-annual International Premiership of Rugby

The idea of this competition is to formalise the current Autumn Internationals and the July Tours, and very importantly it would require no additional matches to be played. The National Unions involved would pay their own costs (since they already do now anyway for AIs and JTs). World Rugby may have to set up a Super Seven Rugby sub-organisation (Super Seven Rugby Ltd?) to arrange sponsorship and TV rights.

1. At the end of each 6N, the top seven ranked teams in the world (at that point) are identified and drawn to play each other once over the following 12 months.

2. The Super Seven is held every two years (not in a World Cup year and not in a Lions Tour year).

3. Each of the seven teams will play six matches (three home, three away).

4. Six Nations and Rugby Championship matches (if applicable) would also count as Super Seven matches. In the case of The Rugby Championship, the last of the two matches would count as the Super Seven match.

5. Table points would be awarded in the usual way; 4 points for a win, 2 for a draw 0 for a loss plus 1 bonus point for 4 tries and 1 bonus point for a close loss (7 or less).

6. There is no promotion/relegation as such. Instead, teams qualify for the Super Seven on their ranking points.

7. There would be no final. Top of the table wins the Super Seven Premiership.

8. Matches would count for 1.5X the world ranking points, so Unions who send weakened teams to the opposite hemisphere would stand to get hammered in the rankings, and risk dropping out of the competition the following year (not to mention potentially risking their seedings for the next RWC.

NOTES:

• If the AIs and STs were to be formalised in this way, their value would be hugely greater than they are now, being part of a recognised competition.

• The matches outside of 6N and RC would be played in the arranged international windows, so player availability should not be an issue, but in any case where it was, World Rugby would have to enforce Regulation 9.

• The profits made from this competition would be used to pay for a similar competition for the teams ranked 8 to 14 (the Minor Seven) where ranking points would also count 1.5x their normal value.

• The competition would not preclude matches between Super Seven teams and Minor Seven teams (or Minor Seven teams and those teams ranked below 14) but these matches would only count for normal ranking points if applicable.​

That's about the best I've seen. I think if you moved the Lions to the year after the RWC, have this in Lions years and normal test rugby the year before the RWC you'd be flying, if it was only every four years you could make it two tiers of 8 too!

 

[Leinster Fan]

Not entirely related to this thread but an idea that I like is playing a European Championship style tournament every four years, presumably during Lions Tours. I think it's been discussed on this forum before, can't remember where though. The Lions teams always have to pick youthful and inexperienced squads anyway, and it would make the tournament itself more competitive. Seems like a feasible way to grow the game in Europe without messing with the Six Nations. The obvious problem is player welfare though.

 

[munstermuffin]

Not entirely related to this thread but an idea that I like is playing a European Championship style tournament every four years, presumably during Lions Tours. I think it's been discussed on this forum before, can't remember where though. The Lions teams always have to pick youthful and inexperienced squads anyway, and it would make the tournament itself more competitive. Seems like a feasible way to grow the game in Europe without messing with the Six Nations. The obvious problem is player welfare though.

Think the issue there will be if the Lions tour NZ then who will Aus and SA play as their home games. Finacial side will dictate alot

 

[bushytop]

Not entirely related to this thread but an idea that I like is playing a European Championship style tournament every four years, presumably during Lions Tours. I think it's been discussed on this forum before, can't remember where though. The Lions teams always have to pick youthful and inexperienced squads anyway, and it would make the tournament itself more competitive. Seems like a feasible way to grow the game in Europe without messing with the Six Nations. The obvious problem is player welfare though.

I really like this idea actually... would be a pretty even comp with all the big boys away lioning it up! If France ever got their act together though... look out. As it stands though... the Scots would probably walk it (only joking Scotland... I'm sure you'll be better rep'd in South Africa).

Think the issue there will be if the Lions tour NZ then who will Aus and SA play as their home games. Finacial side will dictate alot

Would be a good opportunity for some tier twos to get some game time against tier 1's.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Think the issue there will be if the Lions tour NZ then who will Aus and SA play as their home games. Finacial side will dictate alot

Thinking about it, in an ideal world they could play USA/Japan/Fiji etc. As I say though, there'd be an awful lot you'd need to figure out.

 

[munstermuffin]

Thinking about it, in an ideal world they could play USA/Japan/Fiji etc. As I say though, there'd be an awful lot you'd need to figure out.

Yes it'd be a great opportunity. Issue is they won't bring the same financial clout

 

[profitius]

Not entirely related to this thread but an idea that I like is playing a European Championship style tournament every four years, presumably during Lions Tours. I think it's been discussed on this forum before, can't remember where though. The Lions teams always have to pick youthful and inexperienced squads anyway, and it would make the tournament itself more competitive. Seems like a feasible way to grow the game in Europe without messing with the Six Nations. The obvious problem is player welfare though.

Not my idea but have a European championship every 4 years between world cups. Have it played in November.
Move the Lions tour to the year before or year after.

The Southern hemisphere can have a SH championships around a month or two earlier.

No touring that year so June would be freed up for everyone. Longer summer break for the NH and it would help move the SH season forward so the tournaments don't clash and they'd get a longer winter break.


The euro championship in soccer is a great tournament and although rugby don't have the number of competitive teams, it's something that can be built on.