League of Nations

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by The Alpha Bro, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Thingimubob

    Thingimubob Senior Member

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    Anyone seen the video put out by World Rugby today about the new "Nations Championship" tournament: https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1103310725815115776

    Here's their summary that I nabbed off a journalist on twitter - link here for some useful screengrabs from the video from him as well: https://twitter.com/IlltudDafydd/status/1103323657336750080

    [​IMG]

    he only thing I don't quite get is what happens if for example Italy come bottom of the 6N, then lose to Georgia in the play off and get relegated? Is that relegation just for the new tournament or for the 6N too?

    If a 6N team gets relegated from this new one, but not the 6N then they'll be playing 11+ games vs the Div 2 teams/Div 1 in play offs , plus the the 6N matches on top too, which won't be great for player welfare?
     
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  3. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Why do world rugby hater the RWC?

    Keep europe together as a comp
    Keep the SH together as a comp (maybe with NA).

    I don't want to see a crappy budget tier RWC every other year.
     
  4. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    Delete this Nephew, Adding Uruguay and Kenya will make winning the World Cup ten times more meaningful!
     
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  5. themole25

    themole25 Senior Member

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    it's essentially a **** world cup every year there isn't a world cup and then an even s***ter one during the lions tour

    make the tier 1s play one tier 2 per window. pay for tier 3s to play tier 2s and other tier 3s. make sure tier 2s are getting full test schedules. all the teams in ARC should be getting 3 games in summer plus 3-4 in the fall. I know its tough with semi-pro teams to have players away for that long but if the teams are willing they should have the opportunity.

    Tier 1 test rugby is great as it is, just need to include more teams in that group. No oneis gonna care about a World League because that is what the RWC is for.
     
  6. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    I thought the exact same thing.
    My understanding after watching the video is that relegation applies to the 6N too. Otherwise it'd make no sense. There'd be too many games.
     
  7. Jabby

    Jabby Senior Member

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    yeah, my understanding is both the 6N and RC are now part of this World League, so one connects to the other.

    i like it, have been getting a bit bored over the last few games with basically load of "friendly's" or repetition (RC)

    another question, is it time to make the Raeburn shield a real thing? The Ranfurly shield adds a lot of extra spice to the NZ domestic comp, would love to have something like this internationally
     
  8. smartcooky

    smartcooky Referee Coach and Advisor

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    That is just basically the same idea as the one KiwiLinzi and I proposed over ten years ago (which I posted earlier) but with twelve teams instead of seven
     
  9. FrenchFan

    FrenchFan Senior Member

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    what a mess - has club rugby ever looked more appealing or wot
    The LNR are threatening to take legal action. The FFR will be caught between the LNR and World Rugby. Rock and hard place etc.
    If this goes ahead the test game is going into farce. The league will dilute both the RWC and the 6N in one go...

    This is a classic example of rampant globalisation applied to sport. The logic behind it is not rugby it is money. Take the decision-making away from the people (fans and players in this case) to satisfy the money-driven agenda of a minority. And I bet this will be on pay-per-view TV.

    Fans in this country have turned en masse to club rugby. This will push more of them into it. The club game will continue to soar as a result.

    The more global the push. The more people react locally.

    So carry on. More fans will flock to Stade Toulousain and elsewhere. Allez Toulouse!!
     
  10. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    Yes, money is a major motivation behind this for Tier1. However, money is the almost sole motivation behind the status quo behind preventing relegation/promotion to the 6N (I'll give the RC a pass on that as I don't think money is the main motivation there or they'd swap Argentina for Japan in a heartbeat).

    It's not like World League = money = bad
    status quo = virtuous wholesome sentinement = good
     
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  11. FrenchFan

    FrenchFan Senior Member

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    I agree. Status quo or new league. Two faces of the same coin.
     
  12. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    The onus is entirely on World Rugby to make a system that doesn't exclude anyone but also doesn't change the six nations. Its impossible for them to do anything without the backing of the 6N unions but regardless of that very few fans are going to be happy if World Rugby starts to tinker with a tournament which out-dates WR which is run by unions out-dating WR.

    Its not an easy task (I'd suggest implementing their original idea for a global season would be the best first step) but doing what they're doing now, inferring the SRU and FIRA are to blame is bogus.
     
  13. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    **** just got real.

    https://twitter.com/WorldRugby/status/1103310725815115776?s=20

    And I love it - even if they do switch Italy for Georgia in the graphic. :p

    Time for Italy to get their act together. It appears to respond to a lot of the concerns and means no more friendlies outside of World Cup years. I can live with promotion opportunity being limited to once every two years.

    If this is implemented it will be the single most positive thing in rugby that I have seen in a lifetime of watching rugby. I could almost shed a wee tear for rugby fans from Tier2 & 3 nations.
     
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  14. Welshdragon2000

    Welshdragon2000 Senior Member

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    I don’t think it’s as good as you think it is for tier 2 and 3 teams. Canada are listed in the video to play against Mexico and Trinidad! What the heck, that would just destroy rugby in Canada! The calendar proposed in 2017 (for 2020) stayed that tier 2 teams would have home and away games vs tier 1 teams every year but this nations league only allows a maximum of three tier 2 sides in at one time unless there’s some serious shocks like Australia finishing bottom of the RC after Japan and Fiji. Japan, Fiji, USA and (maybe) Georgia May benefit but then we want a global game, not just a 14 or 15 teams game.
    My reform to this proposed plan:
    The bottom team of each conference AUTOMATICALLY is relegated and the team that finishes top of the lower division. The team that finishes second bottom then plays a playoff against the team that finishes second in the lower division.

    I’m still not a huge fan though. I much prefer European championships or a NH/SH tournament.

    You could have the 6N, USA, Japan, Georgia, Russia, Spain, Romania to make up the NH tournament. Then you could have the RC teams, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Uruguay, Namibia, Brazil.. hmm thinking about it, there’s not that many SH nations up to the standard of this so I’m not sure. I’m just relaying ideas as they pop into my head but already my ideas are better than those proposed by world rugby. The key though is becoming a GLOBAL GAME and I don’t see how the nations league would achieve this any quicker than current plans. Sides like Romania would be the big casualties of the nations league as their chances of getting promoted would be very slim.
     
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  15. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    There will always be better theoretical options for Tier2&3, but these options aren't on the table and frankly are unlikely to ever be. Those tiers dont hold many cards in this game, we know Rugby Europe are not even being consulted on this project - which underlines that a European Championship is a pipe dream (it is also my preference I would add). The only thing making this palatable for Tier 1 is the prospect of greater TV and sponsorship revenue due to greater interest in a truly global competition (rather than in something narrowly regional like the 6N). This is the only thing that can make Tier1 entertain the possible financial hit of relegation. So my reading is that it is a "World" league or it is status quo.

    In terms of the Tier1 tests, my understanding was that this was to be only for 2x Tier2 nations, based on ranking. So Tier1 tests that were routinely going to Canada, US and PIs would be redistributed based on world ranking (although this is really murky and I agree World Rugby haven't covered themselves in glory there).

    With a Tier2 Euro-centric focus I can understand negativity, but here are the positives from my perspective:

    - immediate promotion of 2x Tier2 nations to Tier1, with both getting a minimum of 11 Tier1 tests each year

    - PIs have a crack at the top table, making player capture and retention more viable for the PI unions (both in terms or salaries and player exposure (so they can put themselves in the shop window for clubs)

    - A rugby championship where promotion is very credible, with say Tonga or US vs Japan or Fiji likely being competitive playoff matches in the first year. There will be large scope for mobility in the SH and Americas across divisions (that is admittedly perhaps not replicated in Europe in the initial years).

    - bringing the huge Japanese market into the fold has the potential to be the financial saviour of the financially struggling SH Tier1 rugby

    - replacing the developmental ARC with a meaningful tournament where the PIs mingle competitively with the likes of Uruguay, Brazil, Canada - which can only aid development of rugby in the Americas (more so than facing a near 3rd string Pumas or in the developmental Asia Pacific cup).

    - every second year, the REC becomes a very meaningful tournament with the prospect of fighting for a shot at promotion. This invests meaning (and hopefully public interest) into the REC.

    - France and Italy can't just coast along complacently. They either improve (thereby enriching the 6N) or they risk being picked off by the improving REC nations (not realistic now, but give it 5 years)

    - each REC side will get annual exposure to the PIs in competitve fixtures. This is a better developmental opportunity than the likes or Germany or Spain are guaranteed at this time.

    - it may be harder for clubs to refuse to release players to Tier2 nations, when they are part of the same global tournament as the Tier1 nations.

    - it will be harder for Tier1 to ignore Division2 when they are part of the same overarching competition structure

    - a possible end to the ever more frequent nonsense of meaningless Tier1 friendlies (like Pumas at home in London, Wales vs SA in the US). So less tests (taking into account player welfare)

    - increased pressure for expansion to a 24 team RWC (essentially divisions 1 & 2 of the League) - meaning importance is invested in playoffs between divisions 2 & 3 in order to gain access to the RWC (rather than the convoluted RWC qualification process just now).

    - an end to the insurmountable barriers for progression for Tier2&3 and likely greater voting rights on the World Rugby board for Japan and Fiji (or at least some further dilution of the Tier1 monopoly). This creates pressure for increasing mobility in the future and reduces votes for the closed shop mentality.

    OR

    Status quo (which I defy anyone supporting Tier2 or 3 to be supportive of - it doesn't matter if you progress on the field, if you aren't a big market you will 100% be ignored)

    We wont be arriving at the promised land, but for the first time the gates will be unlocked.
     
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  16. bushytop

    bushytop Senior Member

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    Indeed... as scary as relegation is for any of the 6N teams (I think it less likely that any of the current Rugby Championship teams will face relegation due to the introduction of Fiji and Japan)... it is the only (fair) way to take our game truly global. This proposal would transform the funding models for some nations (Germany, Spain, Romainia and Georgia, Samoa, Tonga, Namibia etc) over night.
     
  17. Welshdragon2000

    Welshdragon2000 Senior Member

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    Would there be a significant increase in money for teams in the second division though?
    I am very cautious of the model mainly because it will have such a huge effect on rugby as a whole - positively or negatively we don’t know. I hope that whatever is put forward in the end is for the benefit of the game as a whole and not just for 9 or 10 teams
     
  18. bushytop

    bushytop Senior Member

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    Not necessarily but the prospect of being able to get promoted could all of a sudden cause some outside investment... particularly in a country like Germany.
     
  19. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    I love getting dislikes from people who've literally never posted.
     
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  20. mdaclarke

    mdaclarke Senior Member

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    Do you see any of the big 9 six nations (excluding Italy) and Rugby Championship teams facing relegation?

    Also if the Boks were facing relegation I wonder if they'd stick to their transformation targets?
     
  21. Leinster Fan

    Leinster Fan Senior Member

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    I think it's a possibility. Scotland would be the most likely, we've seen how injuries have affected them this year. If things don't go their way it's a possibility. And there's always the chance of an off-year, could happen for Ireland, Wales, France, Argentina etc.
     
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