Leinster Talk

Discussion in 'European Champions & Challenge Cup' started by shazbooger, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. shazbooger

    shazbooger Guest

    I know Tarbh doesnt have much time for this guy but I have to say I'm a fan. He's usually a bit smug for some people but he tells it as he see's it, and unfortunately he is usually right. I've never seen him this animated.

    It's a long read, but well worth it. Pretty much sums up what most Leinster fans feel. I particularly love the "Leinster couldn't even pour **** out of a shoe with the instructions written on the heel" and the rousing finale at the end ............. "I just do not want to hear some of the players talking bullshit like 'there is a lot of hurting in that dressing room' or 'we've got to learn from our mistakes'. Last week was the week to learn from their mistakes but they didn't bother to turn up when a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity presented itself. It was a disgraceful, gutless, leaderless, spineless performance and one which embellishes the reputation they have all over Europe. "

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  3. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    No doubt he does have some funny moments but his analysis is so far off the mark it's untrue.

    Thanks to Wasps not getting the bonus point win we're now in a position to go to Twickenham only needing to get out of there with a bonus point. Wasps are incapable of getting 4 tries in a match at the moment and given their current form will struggle as much as Leinster to get the win on the final day in Castres. So 6 points from the final 2 games is still a distinct possibility and it's certainlmy not beyond the realms of probability that we may even get the win at Twickenham.

    Still though that doesn't excuse the fact that the fundamental problems still exist for Leinster and Cheika seems incapable of resolving them.

    For me the crux of the problem is Whitaker, his service is woeful and his constant crabbing gives defences much more time, I know he's injured at the moment but it was a dreadful call from Cheika to let Willis go to Ulster. At least I agree with Franno on that score.

    I banged the Keith Gleeson drum for longer than I care to remember and we do miss him but I'm not going to castigate Jennings for a poor performance when so many of the regulars who didn't have the excuse of returning from injury had a howler.
  4. shtove

    shtove Guest

    And he's wrong about the sniggering from Munster - it's not unbearable at all!

    Yes, Whittaker is annoying - always has been.

    Elsom was a disappointment, but Heaslip even more. The crack about the ISEQ was pretty good, although the **** in the shoe actually made me laugh.
  5. monkeypigeon

    monkeypigeon Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Dec 15 2008, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    I've been happy with Elsom, Heaslip has been playing ****** though. Sean O'Brien is looking classy whenever he plays though.

    I never snigger at Leinster, I always cheer on all them Irish teams, and the Welsh teams (but not Wales as a nation for some reason). I think Leinster can win in twikkers if they get they're focking act together roysh?
  6. shazbooger

    shazbooger Guest

    All valid points. For me the line that really hit home and frustrated me most of all was "gutless, leaderless, spineless performance and one which embellishes the reputation they have all over Europe". The thing is I can handle a poor performance or two from a player, but when it spreads through the team you have to look at the mental side of their game.

    The facts are that regardless of how badly Munster play as individuals, they never collectively switch off in the way that Leinster continue to do year after year. This result would never have happened to a Munster side. Leaderless? yes. Gutless? yes. Spineless? yes. Deserving of a public article like this? Most f***ing definately yes.
  7. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Dec 16 2008, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    I think though with Franno writing this type of article people don't really pay much attention, it's needs every journalist to be writing in as scathing a tone for the message to hit home. Problem is though when it comes to press conferences and interviews most of these journalists are too spineless to ask a proper tough question, but they're more than happy to go on tv as a pundit and let rip, why the double standards?
  8. An Tarbh

    An Tarbh Guest

    well this article has certainly struck a nerve with Leinster who seem to have thrown their toys out of the pram by refusing to do post match interviews with Setanta following the Ulster match 2 days ago.

    Who the **** does Cheika think he is behaving like this, Leinster were **** in Castres and it deserved to be said but if he's reacting like that over an article from a washed up hasbeen who contributed **** all to Irish rugby and doesn't have a huge amount of respect to begin with then he really should f*** off and let someone else take over.
  9. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Dec 29 2008, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    I agree that Cheika is throwing his rattle out of his pram by refusing the speak to Setanta. Francis is a clown. He's a poor man's Stephen Jones which is saying something. To act so childish over the comments of a fool like Francis beggars belief.

    What I take some issue with is your assertion that Cheika really should f*** off and let someone else take over if he behaves like this. In my opinion Cheika has done an unbelieveably good job as Leinster coach. Keep in mind the wasteland Declan Kidney left upon his departure. The current Irish coach's regime led to the departure of Shane Byrne, Aidan McCullen, Leo Cullen, Shane Jennings, David Holwell and Victor Costello along with a few squad players. That's the heart ripped out of the pack and the leader of the backline gone in one fell swoop. That's the job he left an unproven coach in Cheika to inherit.

    Cheika took over a rudderless Leinster and turned them into a Heineken Cup semi finalist despite being stuck with a pair of clapped out props (Green and Corrigan), two useless 2nd rows foisted upon him (Byrnes and Williams), a backpacker at blindside (Jowitt) and revolving door worth of scrumhalves, none of whom could hold down the position (O'Riordan, O'Meara, Easterby). He's overseen the transformation of the team, bringing the likes of Kearney, Fitzgerald, Heaslip, Sexton and Healy into the international squad. This year he's doing a fine job developing O'Brien and Toner as future internationals. He's helped turn Bernard Jackman from a plodder into a top quality provincial hooker. His development of talent has been outstanding. He's brought a league title to Leinster. He's brought world class players like Elsom and vdLinde to the team. He saw the team had a porous defence, corrected it and turned it into one of the best in Europe - only 9 tries have been conceded in 12 games this year including one intercept and one penalty try, neither of which are the fault of inept defending. Major credit must goes to Kurt McQuilkin for the job he has done since Cheika gave him that task. He's also seen average attendances triple during his short reign.

    Yes there have been problems. Concession of needless penalties must be addressed. Scrumhalf remains a joke. It's not as though Cheika hasn't recognised this though - he attempted to bring Eoin Reddan in during the summer. In hindsight letting Cillian Willis go has been a poor decision but based upon his play last year, Willis didn't deserve a new contract. Alan Gaffney has yet to make any sort of impact on the backline although people are too quick to pass judgement. What coach could cope with injuries to players of the calibre of D'arcy, O'Driscoll, Contepomi and Nacewa for chunks of the season, coupled with a loss of form of Horgan and Sexton? How was Gaffney supposed to develop a coherent backline when there were a couple of enforced personnel and positional changes each and every week?

    Injuries now seem to be clearing up. Despite a lacklustre start to the season (bar a couple of performances), Leinster have destiny in their own hands in the Heineken Cup where they top their group and are only 6 points behind the Magners League leaders. They face the bottom two sides at home in the next 2 games which gives them a massive opportunity to close that gap. All is not well but it's far from the doom and gloom picture that some people paint.

    Cheika deserves more than to put up with ill informed comments like those of Neil Francis, George Hook and Jim Glennon. Constructive criticism is fine (the sort that Gerry Thornley and Conor O'Shea provide and which Tony Ward sometimes chimes in with) but a lot of the stuff relating to Leinster is clichéed bile. While it's fair to say that Leinster aren't as good now as they were during Matt Williams' final year in charge, he has done a fabulous job considering the hand he was dealt. Things will continue to improve as long as the Australian has the job. I hope he's kept around for the foreseeable future.
  10. shtove

    shtove Guest

    Decent defence of Cheika, but every season they don't just lose - they fail.

    My view is that Leinster can't do it, so the players need to get off the pot and go elsewhere.

    But every cup season has its own momentum - they're in pole position, so criticism suspended.

    Not holding my breath, but maybe this time ...
  11. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Dec 30 2008, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    If failure constitutes not winning the Heineken Cup then you're correct. However if that's the case only 1 team each year have a good season. Look at a snapshot of each of his first three seasons:

    Year 1:
    Poor squad yet Heineken Cup semi finalist and 2nd in the Magners League with just a late David Humphreys drop goal keeping them from the title. Development of Rob Kearney and Jamie Heaslip.

    Year 2:
    A step backwards yet still made the knock out stages of the Heineken Cup and finished 3rd in the ML. In with a shot of taking home the ML on the last day, finishing just 3 points off the top. Development of Bernard Jackman and Luke Fitzgerald.

    Year 3:
    Poor Heineken Cup campaign yet they picked up excellent wins over Leicester (GP finalist later that year) and Toulouse (Top 14 winner). Waltzed through the ML. Bolstered the squad significantly. Shored up the defense. Development of Sexton and Healy.

    Year 4 to date:
    Huge injury problems. Leadership deficit. Patchy form yet top of their group in the HC and 3rd in the ML where they're just 6 points off the top. Outstanding defense. Development of Toner and O'Brien.

    In my opinion, Leinster are currently short of a leader or two, something which will in part be addressed by the return of Leo Cullen. That's their biggest challenge this season. Cheika has had success in his 3 1/2 years to date - it just so happens that his success has coincided with the most successful period in Munster rugby history. Removing Munster from the equation and judging Leinster solely on their own overall performance over the last few seasons, Cheika has done a terrific job. The future's bright as long as he has the job.
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