Let's be honest lads.

[ncurd]

Teams 2nd through to 5th have all had a bad tournament.

Wales lost to 5th place England
Scotland a respectable tournament given recent history but probably sullied by trying to conspire to lose to Italy on the last day.
France almost beating everyone but Scotland but still losing.
England despite beating Wales worst position in 35 years and first time loosing 3 games in the tournament in 12.

 

[mosfeldt]

I disagree. I thought everyone bar England had a good tournament. Wales IMO under-performed a little bit but still made big strides with regards to their game-plan and blooding some players, though the France game was a bit of a throwaway. Scotland's away form has seemed to regress but their home form is the best it's ever been in the 6 Nations and as the Ireland game showed it's only a matter of time before they carry that with them on the road.

Really though I have been very impressed with France (at times). This is the most cohesive they've looked in a while. Bring in a decent, consistent out-half, sort out their discipline and develop their attack a bit and they could've easily been challenging for the ***le. 2 pt loss to GS winners, 6 pts loss to Scotland away, 1 pt loss to Wales (should've won)...

I just think it's the nature of the tournament these days, it's ultra-competitive, margins are fine, and things seem more dire than they are when a team loses. I think England and Italy are the only teams that can really say they had a bad 6N.

 

[MikeTheNative]

It's nice to finish 2nd but Wales just went backwards as the tournament went on. Due to injuries Patchell played the first two games and Wales did try to play some rugby but as soon as Biggar came back it was back to up and unders, kicking etc. Players like Tipruic and Liam Willaims were selected in front of form players. Gatland and Howley just seem to tease everyone with how Wales could play before reverting back to type.

 

[Thingimubob]

I mean considering the injuries we've had and just where we are in general as a team, if someone had said "you'll win your home games, but lose fairly narrowly away to England and Ireland with chances to win the game in the dying mins" then I'd have taken it.

Not been a stellar tournament for us, but there's steps in the right direction for me. Though I agree with Mike in that the return to type vs France was a bit worrying, especially as the performance (despite the result) was very very poor.

One worry for me is that when a refs interpretation of the rules hasn't suited us, we've struggled to adapt and it's cost us . There were large period where we simply couldn't get our heads round the way the breakdown was being reffed vs Ireland, Italy and France and it heaped pressure on us. It was frustrating to watch as a spectator (especially O'Keefe constantly breaking the game up on Saturday), but in recent years we've always dealt with it fairly well as a team full of quite street wise players. Will have to be something we work on, especially when the likes of Warburton come back into the squad.

 

[Big_Grumper]

Of the home nations (and Ireland aside) I think Scotland have the most to be pleased about. Townsend has kept them on an upwards trajectory since he replaced Cotter.

Wales' form was patchy but I think the foundations are there for a new coaching team to develop a very capable squad.

 

[ncurd]

Oh the refereeing this tournament around the breakdown has been terrible and mainly due to massive inconsistency. You have polar ends of spectrum in Owens (who appears to think anything goes) and Barnes (who will get you on anything wrong) in two as far as World Rugby are concerned two of the top referees.

I hate going at the officials but lets get the referees on the same page here games are being massively effected by their interpretation and when you have a tight tournament in terms of winners and losers can make the difference of winning or loosing games.

 

[Genghis]

I think most of us Wales fans would be aggrieved that we didn't get our stake money back if we won the lottery!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Teams 2nd through to 5th have all had a bad tournament.

Wales lost to 5th place England
Scotland a respectable tournament given recent history but probably sullied by trying to conspire to lose to Italy on the last day.
France almost beating everyone but Scotland but still losing.
England despite beating Wales worst position in 35 years and first time loosing 3 games in the tournament in 12.

Everyone but England made progress but yeah, quite like 2016 with one side on the ball and the rest at sixes and sevens.

Scotland didn't really improve on last year and will want to avoid plateauing at a level of winning most their home games while not worrying anyone away like Wales have been for a couple of seasons. Wales really are at a crossroads, had the tournament ended last week I reckon they'd have been reasonably happy, Bigger has to become a squad player at best at international level all he's good for is killing momentum.

France looked consistent, it does look like they have a platform to build from, they haven't had that for nearly 8 years.

England have problems like everyone else, everyone knew that, flogged Lions players exaggerated it further. Autumn will be a chance to rectify it, SA could be tough to watch but it will be about building on their second half on Saturday where they had the type of ball retention that they needed to avoid their bad championship.

Ireland are in a very good place, Schmidt has 6-7 games now to experiment a little bit and there'll be no media pressure. I wouldn't give Murray and Sexton more that 1 start in summer if I'd bring them at all. Luke McGrath and Carbery need to learn to run the show so I'd start McGrath and Sexton game 1, Murray and JC in 2 and McG and Carbs in the third.

Overall I think we're in a good place to see a 5-3 spilt in the quarter finals of the RWC in the NHs favour and 3-1 in the semis is very possible.

 

[FrenchFan]

4th place against 3rd place last year. Lowest number of tries scored (8) in the championship - less than Italy again for 2nd year in a row. Hilarious.

The FFR charade have landed in Monty Python rugby territory - just like Beauxis missed kick for touch in extra time v England.

The Brunel brigade are a penalty giving machine. They handed over the game to Scotland and Wales courtesy of a record number of errors and the discipline of a neurotic child. The Marseilles game v Italy was a comedy of errors - and this was a game the FFR had moved from Paris in order to 'promote the game' - BWHAHAHAH - the club game here really has no competition to fear from the FFR circus.

Best player for Wales: François Trin-Duc.

My highlight of the FFR Barnum at the 6N? the players ****-up in Edinburgh. Available to CCTV subscribers only.
______________

Congrats to Ireland on their Grand Slam.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The weirdest stat is England scored the 2nd most tries and conceded 2nd fewest, you wouldn't have expected the side that came 5th to have that. The breakdown and ill discipline really cost us this tournament, so many times we just gave away easy points and had our attack repeatedly blunted by turnovers / penalties. The bit that highlighted it for me was we were in the Irish 22, penalty. Ireland take it and then at the lineout the ref tells the English players 2 or 3 times to maintain the gap, they ignore him and free kick. Ireland now in our 22 without having to really do anything. That happened so many times, one penalty would immediately be followed up by another meaning a team trying to exit their own 22 would be gifted possession in our 22 without having to do anything.

 

[BPM]

I disagree. I thought everyone bar England had a good tournament. Wales IMO under-performed a little bit but still made big strides with regards to their game-plan and blooding some players, though the France game was a bit of a throwaway. Scotland's away form has seemed to regress but their home form is the best it's ever been in the 6 Nations and as the Ireland game showed it's only a matter of time before they carry that with them on the road.

Really though I have been very impressed with France (at times). This is the most cohesive they've looked in a while. Bring in a decent, consistent out-half, sort out their discipline and develop their attack a bit and they could've easily been challenging for the ***le. 2 pt loss to GS winners, 6 pts loss to Scotland away, 1 pt loss to Wales (should've won)...

I just think it's the nature of the tournament these days, it's ultra-competitive, margins are fine, and things seem more dire than they are when a team loses. I think England and Italy are the only teams that can really say they had a bad 6N.

Did Italy have a 'bad 6N'? Personally I think there were a fair few positives they can take away.

In Minozzi, Negri, Polledri and to a lesser extent, Boni, they've discovered a number of very capable, young test players who can be a key part of their side moving forward.

The scoreline flattered England and they had some good moments against Ireland, Wales and France before giving Scotland a real fright.

I'd argue they were as competitive as they've been in a while.

 

[truthteller]

still very surprised ireland took the grand slam and did so fairly easily....I really didnt rate them as a great side and looking at them man for man I dont really see that many world class players but clearly I misjudged them. They were coached far better, seemed to have more structure and discipline. Sexton and murray proved once again that its halfbacks that really control a team. Their pack were outstanding and their under rated backs were efficient.

Scotland flattered again but have improved. Their 3 wins, beating france and england were pretty epic and possibly the games of the championship but hammerings in ireland and wales spoiled it really. Not sure whats happenning to them away from home. they won in australia ? maybe the atmosphere gets to them.

England sorry I never rated them as world beaters, they lack balance and star quality. Not man for man not collectively. They always have depth and post world cup they did well in a weak 6 nations for a few years and stuffed the aussues a few times but ducked the all blacks for 4 years since being hammered.

Wales started brilliantly then it was downhill all the way thanks almost entirely to their frankly stupid coaching team. How anyone can drop patchell after his masterclass against the scots and 2 years of brilliance at the scarlets defies belief. Dropped for a flanker at fly half who hasnt even played for 2 months? The back row selections were a massive problem, tipuric at 6 is just madness, ahead of moriarty and shingler? thats bonkers...He never plays 6 and doesnt have the physicality
gatland needs to understand the massive difference between loyalty and nepotism. He wasted hook and jamie davies now hes wasting the most talented fly half in the UK. I wouldnt put it past him to bring back crash ball roberts next

France. Much improved overall but lots of work to do too. Brilliant try in Cardiff. They have some classy players coming through like teddy thomas...Their pack is brutal, their breakdown work is good. The irish last gasp defeat was the deciding factor. They edged england and lost narrowly 2 more times. They have some structure but as always they cant find a fly half. They need better relationships with their clubs and play more french qualified players in their league

Italy werent too bad but same old really, full back was great. They spoiled at the breakdown. half way respectable

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Saying England "ducked" the ABs shows a complete lack of understanding for how the internationals are organised... We tried to get a game with the ABs but they wanted special treatment financially for the honour of playing them and so we told them they could get stuffed.

 

[truthteller]

everyone pays more to play the a b's thats just the way it is, depsite the sea of nonsense political correctness in this country where everyone is now supposed to be paid the same, the market doesnt work that way, the ab;s are the best and therefore they get paid the most

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think it was a vintage 6N for anyone bar the Irish, but everyone bar the English will have learnt from it (though it's debatable whether Gatland has the ability to learn considering he reverted to form pretty quickly).
Scotland got a historic win over England and really tested their depth
Italy uncovered some new gems in the backs
France, while combating a terribly run union, played very well at times and Basta has established himself as one of the best centres in the international game
Wales looked really good when given a shot, it's just whether Gatland will trust his players enough to play like that in the future because he threw it all out of the window for the France game

England looked poor and just compounded on errors selection and gameplan that have been there for a long time and made no effort to learn from our mistakes.

everyone pays more to play the a b's thats just the way it is

Have you got a reference for that?
ABs wanted to play England outside of the international window and get 50% of revenue before all ground costs etc meaning they'd have taken home more money than the home side.
No team in the world would agree to those conditions, especially as England can get good sized crowds (potentially sell out) vs any other country so they'd just be flushing money down the toilet.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

everyone pays more to play the a b's thats just the way it is, depsite the sea of nonsense political correctness in this country where everyone is now supposed to be paid the same, the market doesnt work that way, the ab;s are the best and therefore they get paid the most

No, they don't. It was pretty arrogant from the ABs claiming they were just so special they deserved 50% to the revenues because they would bring extra people. It was a ploy, we either agree to one of the most stupid financial agreements between T1 sides that no other T1 country agrees to or we get accused of "dodging" the ABs. They intentionally offered such a ridiculous deal because it was THEM who wanted to avoid the game. Had they wanted the game, they would have made a reasonable request. The ABs already got a massive revenue boost from the Lions lined up and we got nothing from our tour of Aus so how on Earth can we then be asked to play a game where the ABs would walk away with more money than us as hosts?

 

[The5thOfficial]

Wales looked really good when given a shot, it's just whether Gatland will trust his players enough to play like that in the future because he threw it all out of the window for the France game

Got this spot on. The contrast between the first 4 games and the last against France was scary!

 

[Sixways Cheryl]

Personally I thought it was one of the more competitive 6 Nations in a while & that the standard was generally pretty decent. It was only really England who ended the tournament with nothing to be positive about.

Ireland won the Grand Slam but I don't think people should get too carried away about there being a gap between them and the rest. How different would the tournament have gone if Sexton missed his last gasp drop goal v France? Scotland cut Ireland to ribbons in their first half & should have gone in at half time with a significant lead if they'd shown a bit more composure. Even Wales had their moment of looking on top. So yes, they're a top team but I don't think they've gone up a level particularly.

Wales should just pick the Scarlets players & let them do what they want. Picking big names over form players stopped them from having a possibly even better tournament than they did. I thought the opener v Scotland was the best Wales performance I'd seen in a long time... really can't understand why they didn't stick with Patchell at 10. When they play with ambition they look like a much better side.

Scotland flattered to deceive a bit but still played some really good stuff at times & obviously got the Calcutta Cup. So many butchered opportunities against Ireland at the end of excellent bits of play is sort of a metaphor for their tournament really.

Can't get too excited about France but at least they showed a bit more dynamism than the last few years.

Italy didn't get a win but they had their most promising tournament in a very long time. Genuinely good to watch & it's great that O'Shea is giving new players a chance and they're taking it. Sometimes Italy feel a bit pointless but that wasn't the case this time around - they're building something & a win isn't far away.

England, I'm not sure I've got the energy to go into them at this time of night. Hopefully it's a wake up call but we'll see, too many big players simply didn't perform anything like they needed to. Choosing Wigglesworth instead of Robson to replace Ben Youngs summed it up - taking the safe option. Back to the drawing board.