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Life after Eddie …

TRF_Olyy

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Do you think that the fact Borthwick is English is the main reason he’s got the job? Was that a big driver for the RFU? Seems a big gamble. Obviously I’m over the moon it appears you’re not getting Robertson and it could turn out that Borthwick is amazing but I wouldn’t be bowled over by his appointment.
Not necessarily solely because he's English but I think they earmarked him 7yrs ago tbh - When EJ was first brought in part of his job was to prepare an English coach to be his successor,
Borthwick spent 5yrs with England then moved on to be head coach at club level - I imagine their intention was to offer him the role after the World Cup but now it's been shifted up by half a season
 

Reiser99

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While Borthwick isn't confirmed yet it seems the RFU have had him earmarked for a while. I hope they have talked to others and this is genuinely the best option, but it does feel like they picked their guy and aren't going to budge.
 

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Is Borthwick really the type of coach to take England a step forward*?

*I guess anything better is a step forward from Jones
 

Welsh Exile

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For me it’s a simple case of Robertson has won 6 ***les and Borthwick 1. If Borthwick had won the premiership 6 times, or even 3 I’d be desperate for Wales to get him but he hasn’t and by all accounts sounds like he’s tailed off this year. I guess the point raised above is negated a bit by the fact Borthwick knows England infinitely better than Robertson but I know who I’d rather have. It’s not like Borthwick is going anywhere anytime soon and he’ll only benefit from having a few more years under his belt whereas Robertson is blatantly ready for the step up now.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Is Borthwick really the type of coach to take England a step forward*?

*I guess anything better is a step forward from Jones
Partly depends who he has around him,
I think it's too early for him, tbh, but I think we'll likely see an improvement just because of new personnel etc.

Do worry that he might not do very well, get binned after a lacklustre RWC, and then that's his England chance done and gone - kinda like Martin Johnson, who we don't really know how good he could have been as a coach because he was given the England role right off the bat and it put him off coaching for good
 

Welsh Exile

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Partly depends who he has around him,
I think it's too early for him, tbh, but I think we'll likely see an improvement just because of new personnel etc.

Do worry that he might not do very well, get binned after a lacklustre RWC, and then that's his England chance done and gone - kinda like Martin Johnson, who we don't really know how good he could have been as a coach because he was given the England role right off the bat and it put him off coaching for good
Surely he won’t get binned after the WC. Only way that could happen is if you crash out of the group and that isn’t happening and even then I think he’d be given a bit more time.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Surely he won’t get binned after the WC. Only way that could happen is if you crash out of the group and that isn’t happening and even then I think he’d be given a bit more time.
Depends what kind of contract he's given, I suppose, it could be that it's initially up to/including the RWC and then he's welcome to apply for the long term position afterwards when there are other applicants too

Just thinking out loud, though, really - like you said: it would take a very very bad RWC for him to be sacked
 

LIONSxv

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I'd sooner have kept Eddie than given it to Borthwick who my opinion doesn't have enough experience as a head coach and secondly seems as dogmatic as Eddie in his approach to the game
It feels like shoehorning an English coach into the job when he doesn't quite fit. I'm sure Edwards would of come if offered the head coach job on a 4 year deal. Ot waited on Farrell until after the WC.
If you want someone now the outstanding coach who is not tied into a national side would be Robertson. Who fits the bill from what I've heard as a man manager and is quick to install conference etc
 

Geordiefalcon

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Get some decent coaches in now...hopefully.

Sam Vesty - Attack coach? Sorry Saints fans ;)
 

Welsh Exile

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Depends what kind of contract he's given, I suppose, it could be that it's initially up to/including the RWC and then he's welcome to apply for the long term position afterwards when there are other applicants too

Just thinking out loud, though, really - like you said: it would take a very very bad RWC for him to be sacked
Yeah good point re contract. There might be a clause similar to Gatlands stating if you don’t get out of the group you’re gone but even then that would be harsh. No way that is happening though. He’ll smash Japan on set piece alone I reckon. Don’t think you’ll lose to Argentina tbh.

A penny for Robertson thoughts at the moment.
 

Welsh Exile

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There’s some fishy going on with them not announcing the successor. Borthwick taking over is the worst kept secret ever so why would you not announce it now unless the media have massively jumped the gun and the RFU are still undecided.
 

Which Tyler

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Not necessarily solely because he's English but I think they earmarked him 7yrs ago tbh - When EJ was first brought in part of his job was to prepare an English coach to be his successor,
Borthwick spent 5yrs with England then moved on to be head coach at club level - I imagine their intention was to offer him the role after the World Cup but now it's been shifted up by half a season
Feels a familiar story to Hooper at Bath... (except being sent elsewhere for 2 years)
 

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Borthwick may not be a foregone conclusion.

We know the RFU have at least spoken to Robertson, so I wouldn’t totally rule him out yet.
 

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A penny for Robertson thoughts at the moment.
Around 75,000,000 of them…..per annum.

So life after Eddie it is. Can’t argue with that but greener grass and frying pans and fires etc.

As of yesterday the RFU were reported not to have spoken to Tigers and deals take a little time to tie up so that could explain Cockers role. Alternatively the Borthwick chat could just be a red herring. We’ll see in time.
 

TRF_Olyy

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There’s some fishy going on with them not announcing the successor. Borthwick taking over is the worst kept secret ever so why would you not announce it now unless the media have massively jumped the gun and the RFU are still undecided.
Possibly waiting for Tigers to get their ducks in a line first?

My guess is it'll be announced after the two European rugby rounds
 

Welsh Exile

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Borthwick may not be a foregone conclusion.

We know the RFU have at least spoken to Robertson, so I wouldn’t totally rule him out yet.
This is true, and I really hope you’re wrong. However, if Robertson was preferred choice you’d imagine they’d be a hell of a lot of smoke coming out of the NZ media at the moment and there doesn’t appear to be.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Got to wonder why the people in charge of renewing Eddie’s contract for such a big period are in charge of finding his replacement, if Eddie was such a failure to warrant early dismissal just before a world cup
Yeah, feels like they're realising he should've been canned after last years 6N and are scrabbling to try and fix that - but they're as big a part of it as anyone

We'll see how legit their "war room" talks are:
 

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Got to wonder why the people in charge of renewing Eddie’s contract for such a big period are in charge of finding his replacement, if Eddie was such a failure to warrant early dismissal just before a world cup
The Eddie renewal never made any sense someo correct me if I'm wrong but they offered this one to him about a year before the last RWC. Which is insane for any head coach of an international side.

Whoever gets its there better be performance clauses if this has cost a fortune.
 

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