Life after Eddie …

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not sure which paper it's in but I've just seen excerpts from an article and it says that he's completely lost the changing room and that's why he's gone - senior players had raised concerns about the way he treats staff and fringe players, including one time where he berated Max Malins so much that he cried and then was dropped from the team and then the squad as a result.

And in other shock news the world is round.

Even if he had stayed and landed the RWC it still wouldn't have got near mitigating what we've seen on the pitch and what we're now hearing has been going on off it. Well rid.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

18 months ago even Ian Botham was saying that it didn't look a happy camp. Wonder if Proudfoot stands by his rebuttal?

England bat away derogatory claims by legendary cricketer Ian Botham that they 'don't look a happy camp'

It was taking a while for the build-up to England versus Wales to turn spicy, but legendary cricketer Ian Botham has duly obliged.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

With some of the brilliant rugby players we have tearing up the premiership it is ridiculous how poorly they play for England.

Not looking forward to a load of tigers coaches all together though. I've heard tigers players arnt great at integrated in England camps.

 

[ncurd]

Can we get Brendon McCullum? By all account he doesn't do much coaching so just need to instill players with the belief they can play. Do a Ted Lasso on it. He's a Kiwi so I assume would know some of the laws.

Although I worry about impact on the Cricket team.

 

[retired9]

Rightly or wrongly England looked at their worst under the Jones regime when Farrell wasn't on the field - whatever you think about the guy he must have been responsible for driving the team tactically. Without him they were very lost and with him, sometimes still a bit lost but managed to scrape by.

That said in a number of interviews there are players who like Eddie, maybe the split in the dressing room is too big now.

 

[Geordie]

Tigers apparently not letting Walters and Sinfield go

England have just appointed a new D coach havent they? Brett Hodgson is it?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

England have just appointed a new D coach havent they? Brett Hodgson is it?

Eddie appointed it TBF

 

[Which Tyler]

Eddie pre and post WC are two very different beasts. A lot of his wins post WC have been fluke and with sore England performances.

They are; but Eddie post RWC still isn't as bad as it feels though.
In terms of win ratio, Eddie post RWC is above average for an England coach (58%, or 6th out of 16* [or 4th out of 8 professional era]); and there's no way that wouldn't be increasing again had he been given the last 12 months of his contract.

Going into the RWC23, England are essentially guaranteed a QF spot and heavy favourites for a SF. And that'd regardless of who's coaching.

Taking out hyperbole and dislike, there's absolutely no doubt that Eddie had a plan for the RWC; whether we can tell what it is or not.
Any new coach isn't going to really have time to put a detailed plan in place, and will have to reply on a fairly simple plan, and empowering of players (ala 2007) - relying on the inherent talent and a dead-cat bounce (and a whole year's worth of DCB is a hell of an ask).

IMO Eddie had a better chance of us reaching the final, and a much better chance of winning the final than any new coach. An inexperienced new head coach has much more opportunity to shit the bed than an experienced one.
That's my concern - that I wanted Eddie out doesn't really change that.



* taking out the 2 caretaker HCs we've had, and doing the same for SCW, diving his into the first and second 4 years in charge.
1 82% SCW b
2 77% EJ a
3 74% Rowell
4 71% Cooke
5 61% Lancaster
6 58% SCW a & EJ b
8 55% Johnson
9 55% Ashton
10 41% Robinson
11 36% Green
12 33% White, Elders, Colston & Davis
16 25% Greenwood

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Just a thought. England's abject performance against the Boks was almost entirely down the poor performance of the forwards. Now the forwards coach is in charge.

I'm certainly not against the sacking of Jones, to be honest with 20/20 hindsight he should have left after the 2019 WC but if you are going to sack someone at least have a plausible back up plan and Cockers isn't a back up plan. It was his area of responsibility that was the problem so I'm not sure what he's going to achieve by taking full responsibility.

How much input did Cockerill have in picking the forwards though or was he overruled by Eddie? Was it Cockerill's idea to start Mako Vunipola and leave Genge on the bench? Im hoping Cockerill prefers props that can scrummage.

 

[McTallshort]

How much input did Cockerill have in picking the forwards though or was he overruled by Eddie? Was it Cockerill's idea to start Mako Vunipola and leave Genge on the bench? Im hoping Cockerill prefers props that can scrummage.

Well that's what we don't know but it seems pointless having a forwards coach just to overrule them. I'm pretty sure Eddie isn't that daft

 

[Geordie]

Eddie appointed it TBF

But he'll still be contracted you would think...so why bring Sinfield in.

 

[Which Tyler]

Rightly or wrongly England looked at their worst under the Jones regime when Farrell wasn't on the field.

Are you sure about that? That's certainly not how it looked to me, not that it's a large sample size, of course

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

They are; but Eddie post RWC still isn't as bad as it feels though.
In terms of win ratio, Eddie post RWC is above average for an England coach (58%, or 6th out of 16* [or 4th out of 8 professional era]); and there's no way that wouldn't be increasing again had he been given the last 12 months of his contract.

Going into the RWC23, England are essentially guaranteed a QF spot and heavy favourites for a SF. And that'd regardless of who's coaching.

Taking out hyperbole and dislike, there's absolutely no doubt that Eddie had a plan for the RWC; whether we can tell what it is or not.
Any new coach isn't going to really have time to put a detailed plan in place, and will have to reply on a fairly simple plan, and empowering of players (ala 2007) - relying on the inherent talent and a dead-cat bounce (and a whole year's worth of DCB is a hell of an ask).

IMO Eddie had a better chance of us reaching the final, and a much better chance of winning the final than any new coach. An inexperienced new head coach has much more opportunity to shit the bed than an experienced one.
That's my concern - that I wanted Eddie out doesn't really change that.



* taking out the 2 caretaker HCs we've had, and doing the same for SCW, diving his into the first and second 4 years in charge.
1 82% SCW b
2 77% EJ a
3 74% Rowell
4 71% Cooke
5 61% Lancaster
6 58% SCW a & EJ b
8 55% Johnson
9 55% Ashton
10 41% Robinson
11 36% Green
12 33% White, Elders, Colston & Davis
16 25% Greenwood

I think that's all irrelevant though. He seems to have lost the dressing room and if players aren't responding to a coach then it's simply not going to happen, genius master plan or no genius master plan. End of story. The culture in camp sounds pretty horrible and the RFU must presumably cop some flak for not intervening earlier.

Any new coach should at least bring some organisation, a clear game plan even if a simple one and a happier camp. That in itself will help. They may not have the high ceiling of Brighton or the SF but they're unlikely to bring the lows either. All depends on getting the right man of course…..

I think your argument would have been stronger if we'd have put up a fight in the 19 final. But we didn't even fire a shot. To use a favoured euphemism on here, the bed got a little damp.

Just read that over his 7 years Jones used 112 players and 80 back room / coaching staff.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Well that's what we don't know but it seems pointless having a forwards coach just to overrule them. I'm pretty sure Eddie isn't that daft

I think Eddie is that arrogant!

 

[Which Tyler]

I think your argument would have been stronger if we'd have put up a fight in the 19 final.

I'm not making an argument - I'm presenting fact.

I wanted Eddie out; I'm not here to say that sacking him is wrong.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I'm not making an argument - I'm presenting fact.

I wanted Eddie out; I'm not here to say that sacking him is wrong.

Fair enough. I was only really taking issue on the Eddie having a much better chance in the final line.

 

[Which Tyler]

Fair enough. I was only really taking issue on the Eddie having a much better chance in the final line.

Ah - then his having a plan for getting there (and hopefully* has learned his lesson about needing to plan for a SF AND a final) - then the rationale behind that sentence stands.
As does the fact that I can't see what his plan was.



* It's the hope that kills ya

 

[Geordie]

Anyway....LIFE AFTER EDDIE

 

[Bada-Bing!]

If Southgate wins the World Cup I say give it to him.

What are the chances of Eddie getting hired as a consultant by the Wallabies and ending up knocking England out in the RWC?

Anyway there is life after Eddie.

 

[McTallshort]

I think Eddie is that arrogant!

Well I don't personally know him will hold judgement