List of wins by Tier Two nations against Tier One nations in the pro era

[Tooting Carmen]

* = World Cup match

Canada
11 November 2000 Italy 17–22 Canada Stadio Comunale Mario Battaglini, Rovigo
15 June 2002 Canada 26–23 Scotland Vancouver, BC
2 July 2005 Canada 22–15 Argentina Kingsland, Calgary

Fiji
26 May 1998 Fiji 51-26 Scotland National Stadium, Suva
28 August 1999 Italy 32–50 Fiji Stadio Tommaso Fattori, L'Aquila
15 July 2000 Fiji 43–9 Italy Churchill Park, Lautoka
17 July 2006 Fiji 29-18 Italy Churchill Park, Lautoka
29 September 2007 Wales 34–38 Fiji Stade de la Beaujoire, Nantes *
7 June 2014 Fiji 25-14 Italy National Stadium, Suva
17 June 2017 Fiji 22-19 Italy National Stadium, Suva
24 June 2017 Fiji 22-17 Scotland National Stadium, Suva
24 November 2018 France 14–21 Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Japan
15 September 1998 Japan 44–29 Argentina Chichibunomiya Rugby Stadium, Tokyo
15 June 2013 Japan 23–8 Wales Chichibunomiya Rugby Stadium, Tokyo
21 June 2014 Japan 26–23 Italy Chichibunomiya Rugby Stadium, Tokyo
19 September 2015 South Africa 32–34 Japan Falmer Stadium, Brighton *
9 June 2018 Japan 34–17 Italy Oita Bank Dome, Oita
28 September 2019 Japan 19–12 Ireland Shizuoka Stadium, Fukuroi *
13 October 2019 Japan 28-21 Scotland International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama *

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Romania
26 June 2004 Romania 25-24 Italy Dinamo Stadium, Bucharest

Samoa
12 November 1996 Ireland 25–40 Samoa Lansdowne Road, Dublin
14 October 1999 Wales 31–38 Samoa Millennium Stadium, Cardiff *
8 July 2000 Samoa 43–24 Italy Apia Park, Apia
24 November 2001 Italy 9–17 Samoa Stadio Tommaso Fattori, L'Aquila
3 December 2005 Argentina12–28 Samoa Buenos Aires
17 July 2011 Australia 23–32 Samoa Stadium Australia, Sydney
16 November 2012 Wales19–26 Samoa Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
8 June 2013 Samoa 27–17 Scotland Mr Price Kings Park, Durban
15 June 2013 Samoa 39–10 Italy Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
14 June 2014 Samoa 15-0 Italy Apia Park, Apia

Tonga
16 June 1999 Tonga 20–16 France Teufaiva Sport Stadium, Nukuʻalofa
10 October 1999 Italy 25–28 Tonga Welford Road, Leicester
1 October 2011 France 14–19 Tonga Westpac Stadium, Wellington *
24 November 2012 Scotland 15–21 Tonga Pittodrie, Aberdeen
26 November 2016 Italy 17–19 Tonga Stadio Euganeo, Padua

United States
16 June 2018 United States 30-29 Scotland BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

How are you defining tier 1? Is it playing for 6N or THC? Because if that is your criteria Argentina was not Tier 1 until 2012 and pro era started in 1995 if i recall correctly.
Pretty sure Arg beat quite a few Tier 1 nations between 1996 and 2011.

 

[Reiser99]

Reality is that most of those wins are either against Scotland or even more likely Italy. Fiji and Japan seem to be the only countries currently capable of challenging T1 countries. Japan might be a T1 country if they can build on an excellent world cup. However they really need regular rugby in TRC or 6N. However I don't see T2 nations challenging T1 any time soon with the current setup.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

How are you defining tier 1? Is it playing for 6N or THC?

Essentially yes.

Because if that is your criteria Argentina was not Tier 1 until 2012 and pro era started in 1995 if i recall correctly.
Pretty sure Arg beat quite a few Tier 1 nations between 1996 and 2011.

Yes, but even before Argentina joined the RC, World Rugby already regarded it as a Tier One nation, only that there was a debate as to whether they should eventually join the NH or SH competitions, but they couldn't initially due to boadcasting agreements and the test schedule.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Romania
26 June 2004 Romania 25-24 Italy Dinamo Stadium, Bucharest

Samoa
12 November 1996 Ireland 25–40 Samoa Lansdowne Road, Dublin
14 October 1999 Wales 31–38 Samoa Millennium Stadium, Cardiff *
8 July 2000 Samoa 43–24 Italy Apia Park, Apia
24 November 2001 Italy 9–17 Samoa Stadio Tommaso Fattori, L'Aquila
3 December 2005 Argentina12–28 Samoa Buenos Aires
17 July 2011 Australia 23–32 Samoa Stadium Australia, Sydney
16 November 2012 Wales19–26 Samoa Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
8 June 2013 Samoa 27–17 Scotland Mr Price Kings Park, Durban
15 June 2013 Samoa 39–10 Italy Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
14 June 2014 Samoa 15-0 Italy Apia Park, Apia

Tonga
16 June 1999 Tonga 20–16 France Teufaiva Sport Stadium, Nukuʻalofa
10 October 1999 Italy 25–28 Tonga Welford Road, Leicester
1 October 2011 France 14–19 Tonga Westpac Stadium, Wellington *
24 November 2012 Scotland 15–21 Tonga Pittodrie, Aberdeen
26 November 2016 Italy 17–19 Tonga Stadio Euganeo, Padua

United States
16 June 2018 United States 30-29 Scotland BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston

N.B. The Italy-Tonga match in 1999 was a World Cup match too.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Today, Georgia beat Italy 28-19.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

And of course, Georgia won in Cardiff 13-12.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

All week I was meaning to put a bet on Georgia, just wanted to wait to see the team wales named. Then I wasn't feeling well last few days and I forgot. Gutted

 

[Tooting Carmen]

England lost today for the first time ever against a Tier Two nation (and at Twickenham no less)! England 22-30 Fiji.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

17 September 2023 Australia 15-22 Fiji * St Etienne, France

 

[Brigantine]

In table form

[ EDIT: Removed T1 v T1 games before 1995. Once I got this far I went and filled in the rest too. Added the pre-1995 numbers to make it easier to subtract them in future ]

 

[Tooting Carmen]

In table form

View attachment 17775

Thanks, but the tier one head-to-heads appear to be all-time, not just pro era. And why have only the victories by France, Argentina, Wales, Scotland and Italy over other Tier One nations been listed?

 

[Brigantine]

New Zealand, South Africa and Australia have beaten every T1 country 10+ times.
England, Ireland, France, Wales have beaten most T1 countries 10+ times (and Scotland isn't far off)
Argentina has beaten everyone, but the numbers against anglophone opponents are low
Italy is in the grey zone between T1 and T2 - narrowly closer to T1 (24 T1 wins vs 16 T2 losses). They have just barely beaten more T1 opponents (7) than Fiji, Samoa and Japan (6 each)

Fiji, Samoa and Japan are the cutting edge of T2, each with 6 different T1 scalps, and a monopoly amongst T2 on the scalps of England, South Africa, Australia and Ireland. The main difference between them is how many wins vs Italy they have accumulated

Tonga's 2 wins against France are quite the outlier. The only T2 with multiple wins against one team that can itself beat the All Blacks

Canada, Georgia, United States, Romania have some one-off feats against the lower-ranked T1s

Uruguay gets an honourable mention for beating Fiji in 2019 and Japan in 2005.
Korea (2002), Russia (2003) also get honourable mentions for beating Japan before they were good. (Japan's T1 wins were after 2013 except one)
For completeness, Hong Kong (x4 1996-1998) beat Japan before Japan made the table (vs Argentina in late 1998)

 

[Tooting Carmen]

New Zealand, South Africa and Australia have beaten every T1 country 10+ times.
England, Ireland, France, Wales have beaten most T1 countries 10+ times (and Scotland isn't far off)
Argentina has beaten everyone, but the numbers against anglophone opponents are low
Italy is in the grey zone between T1 and T2 - narrowly closer to T1 (24 T1 wins vs 16 T2 losses). They have just barely beaten more T1 opponents (7) than Fiji, Samoa and Japan (6 each)

Fiji, Samoa and Japan are the cutting edge of T2, each with 6 different T1 scalps, and a monopoly among T2 on England, South Africa, Australia and Ireland scalps. The main difference between them is how many wins vs Italy they have accumulated

Tonga's 2 wins against France are quite the outlier. The only T2 with multiple wins against one team that can itself beat the All Blacks

Canada, Georgia, United States, Romania have some one-off feats against the lower-ranked T1s

Uruguay gets an honourable mention for beating Fiji in 2019 and Japan in 2005.
Hong Kong (x4 1996-1998), Korea (2002), Russia (2003) also get honourable mentions for beating Japan before they were good.

Italy's 16 Tier Two losses are from the pro era alone, whereas their 24 Tier One wins are from both periods.
EDIT: Sorry, you were right!

 

[Brigantine]

Italy's 16 Tier Two losses are from the pro era alone, whereas their 24 Tier One wins are from both periods.

No, the table is updated. That's just since 1995. Italy didn't play T1 much before that

pre-1995:

 

[Tooting Carmen]

No, the table is updated. That's just since 1995. Italy didn't play T1 much before that

pre-1995:

Canada and Romania by far the Tier Two countries that have most declined.
EDIT: Furthermore, in terms of wins v losses ratio, Ireland and Wales have effectively swapped places between the amateur and pro eras. In addition, Namibia beat both Ireland and Italy twice each around 1991. And even Germany beat France and Italy occasionally in the inter-war period!

 

[Reiser99]

No, the table is updated. That's just since 1995. Italy didn't play T1 much before that

pre-1995:

Is that completely up to date? It says Ireland have never beaten NZ and Scotland has never played NZ.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is that completely up to date? It says Ireland have never beaten NZ and Scotland has never played NZ.

Pre-1995, presume Scotland is just a typo.

 

[Reiser99]

Ah yeah, my bad.