Mathieu Bastareaud "******* ******"

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I've only just gotten around to seeing the clip ( if anyone needs it) and was quite surprised that it doesn't appear to have been discussed on the forum yet.

I really find myself going back and forward with it; obviously it's incredibly insensitive and wrong to say, and has no place in the sport but I'm finding it hard to really condemn Bastareaud for this. Yes, the word holds serious connotations but at the same time in most contexts it has become quite distanced from that meaning and now falls much more into the generic insult category, so I can see why in the heat of the moment without thinking about it, he might use it. I really find myself struggling to label him as homophobic when the person he said it to isn't actually homosexual; my mind keeps going back to that South Park episode with the motorcyclists.

It's a hard one. Would like to know what others think.

Also find it very strange that people have ignored the opposition player calling him a "lazy f***ing African."

 

[profitius]

He should be stoned to death for saying a bad word.

 

[mania]

it is a disgrace.
agree with what you say toby in that its been desensitised with over use and doesnt rally mean what it literally means any more.
but still...if youre going to be an idiot and let your mouth run off then u gotta accept the consequences.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm finding it hard to really condemn Bastareaud for this. Yes, the word holds serious connotations but at the same time in most contexts it has become quite distanced from that meaning and now falls much more into the generic insult category, so I can see why in the heat of the moment without thinking about it, he might use it.

Absolute ********.
You don't get to decide whether or not your slurs are still offensive or not.
He should get a hefty hefty ban for this.

If it's true that the other guy was being racist then so should he.

 

[mania]

He should be stoned to death for saying a bad word.

i hardly see the point of letting him get high

 

[Which Tyler]

Absolute ********.
You don't get to decide whether or not your slurs are still offensive or not.
He should get a hefty hefty ban for this.

If it's true that the other guy was being racist then so should he.

Agreed, he used a homophobic term as an insult. I must have lived a sheltered life though, as I've only heard that term as either wood for the fire (well,I'm aware of that use, never heard it used for that), meatballs, or as a homophobic insult.

If he's reacting to a racist insult (and he's certainly reacting to something), then both should be banned. Unfortunately for Basta, his was heard clearly on the microphones, whilst it's unclear (to me) what was said to him.

 

[mania]

i still cant believe how immature he is still. dude grow up. your a senior player and have the discipline of a child

 

[ncurd]

Homophobic slurs have no place on the rugby field same as misogynistic and racist. Any player heard to be doing it should have the book thrown at them, Bastareaud's only mitigating circumstance is language of a similar ilk was used at him. In which case I don't mind a shortening of the ban if proven to be true.

TBH I think we should go at any player who uses threatening or abusive language at another player. Easier said than done mind and there's a lot more to police on the rugby field that is far worse.

 

[die_mole]

i hardly see the point of letting him get high

If we ever do award again this needs to be post of the year/decade/whatever

Edit: Toby thanks for pointing out the African part. I'd been trying to figure out what the word after "f***" that came from the other dude and now I definitely hear "African." So screw both these guys.

 

[mania]

Also find it very strange that people have ignored the opposition player calling him a "lazy f***ing African."

actually i hear it now too. they both need to be punished

 

[Brigantine]

One of the french posters in the other thread was saying his English is quite limited.

It's one thing for a perfectly fluent speaker to be held to account for the specific connotations of each word they use, they should know better. But when you're using a language you barely know, you simply don't have the same precision and you can't help but make a few faux pas along the way.

Not a get out of jail free card, but maybe something for the French (speaking) rugby authorities to make a judgment on.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He's obviously aware of the connotations of it otherwise he wouldn't have used it, he'd have said something in French.
Why's he even learning slurs if he doesn't know any English? I know a couple of French swearwords but no slurs and nothing I could call on in the heat of the moment

 

[die_mole]

the fact he used another language makes it worse in my mind. he went out of his way to make sure the insult was in a language they both understood. I used to be bi-lingual (now i'm like barely competent in spanish) but the only time I spoke spanish on the baseball field was when I wanted to insult someone. Because teenage me was a prick.

 

[mania]

Why's he even learning slurs if he doesn't know any English?

Anytime I get exposed to a new culture, the first thing I learn are the swear words. I can swear in a few languages.

 

[Brigantine]

And you don't get the details about what the exact connotations of each swear word are, or the distinction between a swear word and a slur. I got in trouble in Germany for saying something about those damned Aussies. Turns out the word Ossis (which sounds exactly the same) is a slur against people who grew up in East Germany and had trouble adapting to Capitalism.

How much of this reaction is because he deliberately said a bad word, (not in dispute), and how much because of a specific meaning he may have intended? (uncertain)

Is he a bigot, or maybe just a prick like themole16? Does the difference matter? Or perhaps the penalty should be based on the outcome, not the intent.

 

[TRF_heineken]

What's wrong with saying Lazy African? I don't see that as a racist remark. Come to SA then you will see how lazy some Africans are...

As for Basteraud, the word he used isn't as potent as what it once was with regards to slurs. He could've used far worse words. unfortunately for him though, him saying it loud and clear over the mic has caused an uproar, and he should get punished. Even though I think it was just in the heat of the moment kind of thing.

 

[smartcooky]

He should be stoned to death for saying a bad word.

Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even, and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.

 

[ncurd]

I think the people saying he didn't know what he was saying are being disengenous. It may not be his first language but he clearly knows by saying "you fing f**" he clearly knows the last word is derogotary term applied to a person.
In how many languages is that going to be a good thing? There's also the simple fact that the only time I've heard it is imply someone is homosexual in a derogatory manner. Hell most American's can get confused when a Brit refers to a cigarette as a fag.

What's wrong with saying Lazy African? I don't see that as a racist remark. Come to SA then you will see how lazy some Africans are...

As for Basteraud, the word he used isn't as potent as what it once was with regards to slurs. He could've used far worse words. unfortunately for him though, him saying it loud and clear over the mic has caused an uproar, and he should get punished. Even though I think it was just in the heat of the moment kind of thing.

Lazy African, when the person is French but is of presumably African decent is very definition of a racist remark even if no actual bad language was used. Admittedly if you called someone from the African continent lazy it would hard to deem it racist.

I think you need to ask a gay person if it still derogatory or not I think you'll find they think its still highly offensive. The difference is with acceptance of homosexuals in late 90's and beyond most people have accepted much like N-word the language is extremely offensive and have stopped using it.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think the people saying he didn't know what he was saying are being disengenous. It may not be his first language but he clearly knows by saying "you fing f**" he clearly knows the last word is derogotary term applied to a person.
In how many languages is that going to be a good thing? There's also the simple fact that the only time I've heard it is imply someone is homosexual in a derogatory manner. Hell most American's can get confused when a Brit refers to a cigarette as a fag.

Lazy African, when the person is French but is of presumably African decent is very definition of a racist remark even if no actual bad language was used. Admittedly if you called someone from the African continent lazy it would hard to deem it racist.

I think you need to ask a gay person if it still derogatory or not I think you'll find they think its still highly offensive. The difference is with acceptance of homosexuals in late 90's and beyond most people have accepted much like N-word the language is extremely offensive and have stopped using it.

True, but you get many Black French speaking people from Africa, possibility is that the person making that remark might not know who Basteraud is, or his heritage. If it was an Italian saying it, then it's perfectly understandable as they really are an ignorant bunch...

Storm in a teacup this.

 

[die_mole]

What's wrong with saying Lazy African? I don't see that as a racist remark. Come to SA then you will see how lazy some Africans are...

As for Basteraud, the word he used isn't as potent as what it once was with regards to slurs. He could've used far worse words. unfortunately for him though, him saying it loud and clear over the mic has caused an uproar, and he should get punished. Even though I think it was just in the heat of the moment kind of thing.

cause there are a million insults the guy could have used but he chose one with a racial origin, I wonder why that was?

as for basteraud, yeah it's still pretty potent. just ask the gay community if they find it offensive. considering for some it's the last thing they hear before they are raped, beaten, or worse; i'd say they'd be against it.