Merit

[Icemn]

i've been thinking...

do players still get selected on this? or according to past experiences/favouritism/etc

i've been watching the super15 games and more unknown/new players are putting up their hand... outperforming other players that play for their respective countries...

I know it still early days, and that the other players just came back from n tough rugby world cup, while these "unknown" players had it easier...

but it has got me thinking...

will a guy like banana still get picked for the boks, while a guy like jj engelbreght is putting up his hand....

banana has been n nowhere for the last 5 years...but he is still being picked cuz he was maybe good 5years ago... i'm just making an example...

i'm an All Black fan, but i'm just making an example.... some of you might feel the same way.....

 

[big ginger 8]

Unfortunately not on the Irish team...it's all what you did in the past or favouritism. In fairness theree's only about 3-4 players I'd drop but they'd make a sizeable difference.

 

[Icemn]

Unfortunately not on the Irish team...it's all what you did in the past or favouritism. In fairness theree's only about 3-4 players I'd drop but they'd make a sizeable difference.

yes i know what you mean...

i'm thinking about Mccaw aswell... i think he has past his sell-by date... but you also have to think about the other factors he offers, like his leadership and motivating of players, leading from the from etc... i think that also counts for o'driscoll, i don't know...

cuz i'm looking at matt todd replacing mccaw... don't know if you guys have a outside centre to replace o'driscoll on meritt

 

[TNT88]

Ask any super rugby coach what backrower/s they are most concerned about facing. McCaw will come up pretty much every time.

And ask which backrowers they would recruit if they could have anyone. McCaw wil also come up pretty much every time.

He might be slightly past his peak, but past his "used by date"? I don't think so.

 

[big ginger 8]

yes i know what you mean...

i'm thinking about Mccaw aswell... i think he has past his sell-by date... but you also have to think about the other factors he offers, like his leadership and motivating of players, leading from the from etc... i think that also counts for o'driscoll, i don't know...

cuz i'm looking at matt todd replacing mccaw... don't know if you guys have a outside centre to replace o'driscoll on meritt

Think most would definately keep O'Driscoll when he comes back. Despite playing injured all last season he was still the best 13 in the country and we need him defensivly. This 6n is good for finding a replacement but I'd sill probably have him back in the team (obviously depends on how well he comes back). Now D'arcy is another story.

 

[Icemn]

Ask any super rugby coach what backrower/s they are most concerned about facing. McCaw will come up pretty much every time.

And ask which backrowers they would recruit if they could have anyone. McCaw wil also come up pretty much every time.

He might be slightly past his peak, but past his "used by date"? I don't think so.

lol you know what I mean yes I agree... mccaw is not done yet...

 

[nickdnz]

I think New Zealand is pretty good this way. Form is temporary but class is permanent is a cliche, but much of the time it's true. A few time I've thought some players were picked because of favouritism more than from such as Muliaina, but the reality is that the coaches know what performance they are almost guarenteed to bring to the game. I think the best example right now is England.

England of two or so years ago were almost guarenteed to pick players who were tried and tested in the past, but out of form. Players like Wilkinson, Tindall, Worsley, Sheridan, Shaw etc showed glimpses of their past form but overall weren't the best players avalible. Now England have backflipped and because few good players were bred in for several years, they're almost starting from scratch where no position is entirely certain, and I don't think that's good either (especially when some players seem to be picked on favouritism rather than form anyway).

It's a mix. I think it's best to breed the new players in slowly by giving them game time, without throwing away proven internationals too quickly. Todd replacing McCaw is not going to happen. McCaw is still too good and important at this stage (and has another four years on his contract, lol). There is also a different level of competition from test and super rugby. Rene Ranger and Robert Fruean are too of the most dangerous players in the competition, but some of their flaws could get heavily exposted at test level.

 

[Peat]

Pretty much what nick said.

I hate it when people conflate merit with form. Overall ability and team cohesion are equally important deciding factors in whether to select a player at any level - and as he points out, international rugby is a more demanding level.

 

[welshglory]

Yea agree with Peat and Nick.

If NZ for eg only picked players on form then they basically wouldn't have picked any Chiefs or Hurricanes player for the past 2/3 years!