Messed up films ?

[Big Ewis]

Hey,
I'm sure a number of you hard Rugby men...(ahemm...)...know what I'm talking about ?

Cannibal Holocaust, Irreversible, Sado, Itchi the Killer, A Serbian Film, Man Behind the Sun...

I'm a lurker of those such films, I read all about them on the iMDB boards, check out some youtube scenes and clips...
for me there is no discussion (though surely this WILL provoke discussion ) that as a big horror fan, there are limits in Art. Again, not to spread this monologue on 4 pages, but basically, in short, things like raping the innocent young or incest or certain extremely graphic torture-porn scenes and concepts are just simply unhealthy, and therefor wrong, and often not artistic at all, and should never see the light of day and should be forgotten as quickly as possible.

I do, however, as many, have a morbid fascination that brings me close to these things...I'll read up about grisly snuff shyt that's actually happened every once in a while when I run into something on this God forsaken internet...and then I have this feeling of disgust the whole day. Like today.

Note: I don't actually watch them because they are both meaningless and extremely harmful.

Anybody have anything to say about all that ? without getting too graphic please.

 

[dullonien]

I've read some reviews of 'A Serbian Film' on IMBD, and I totally agree. There is no art in basically portraying the most disturbing and perverted things imaginable. I struggle to understand the mentality of whoever thought of such things, those who are willing to 'act' in such things, and especially those who want to actually watch them. Human Centipede is another that I will avoid at all costs, because I find the premise utterly disgusting.

Personally, I'm not a fan of shock horror. I'll happily watch a genuinely well written horror film, or a comedy style horror, but shock horror mostly revolves around depicting things which are mostly difficult to stomach. So whilst I've seen a few of the SAW films, I haven't enjoyed them, and don't wish to see the others. However, as films such as SAW are relatively watered down, I don't really have anything against them, or those that enjoy them.

It's not that I'm easily shocked, most of the time I just find shock horror movies a little boring.

 

[SelimNiai]

I dislike the horror genre. I fail to understand the mentality of "I want to watch a film and I also want to watch something that will scare me".

 

[Bluemoon]

I think as pop shocker/messed up goes, the Human Centipede is at the forefront of it at the moment, even if it isn't the worst one out there. The premise is just messed up. I think art is about expression and some humans have dark desires, thoughts and imaginations. Art, I suppose is a safe avenue of exploring it. Is it safe for the receiver?... that's another discussion.

I think horror is a bit like marmite. Its well dark and you love it or you hate it. I am not a fan of either.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Eraserhead

Lynch films in general.
I'm not a fan of his - I find it genuinely difficult to watch his films.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

The Human Centipede had terrible actors in it, which made it kind of terrible. I wasn't particularly shocked whilst watching the movie, because obviously you know what to expect. Lying in bed afterwards I may have shuddered a bit though.

Cannibal Ferox is one I saw five or so years ago. I can imagine at the time is was awful (banned in 20 countries or whatever).

I enjoy films which are a bit shocking, but only if it's done in a creative way. Saw has a bit of gore in it (though to be honest, the first one has very little, beyond the opening scene), but it's also very intelligently made, especially once you get to the later films (which admittedly are very hard to follow if not watched in quick succession.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Watched the Serbian Film. Something I regret viewing and never want to see again.

Not a fan of horror, heaven knows why me and my mates watched it.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I dislike the horror genre. I fail to understand the mentality of "I want to watch a film and I also want to watch something that will scare me".

Woah, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I agree that horror films aren't great (I'm pretty squeamish to gore) but there are lots of thriller and suspense films that scare the absolute ****e out of me and are utterly fantastic.

 

[Draggs]

Serbian Film just sucked. It was like some kids wanted to try and make the most ridiculous movie around.

What's wrong with wanted to be scared by a movie? People watch comedies to make them laugh. just because other people like it and you don't doesn't make it ****e.

 

[LittleGuy]

The only thing redeeming about the Human Centipede is that it spawned the absolutely hilarious South Park episode Human Cent-I-Pad. But other than that I generally agree with yoe and Dull these shock horror movies are generally worthless, vapid, unartistic trash. A couple have at least had some redeeming qualities I suppose, the first SAW, Se7en perhaps though I didn't particularly enjoy them myself.

When horror is at it's best though it can be quite the genre, sci-fi horror, psychological horror and even comedy horror have spawned a number of my favourite films.

 

[nickdnz]

Kevin Smith is directing a movie called Tusk that I'm pretty excited for as a Kevin Smith fan, but overall I agree.

The best horror films in my opinion are ones which can suggest things - without having to show it. Watching someone have put push their face through razorwire in order to live - just makes me wonder what it is about humans that would enjoy this. I find some bands like Cannibal Corpse - which musically are boring in my opinion and lyrically are repugnant, make me think there is something basically wrong with people who enjoy it. Ironically the people I know who love it are often really passive and reasonable guys. Same with guys who watch horrible movies for fun, the feeling of "oh, isn't that f*cked up!" just isn't a strong enough motivator for me to watch a film.

 

[j'nuh]

From a bit of a horror fan:

Shock films are terrible. Scares such as "jump scares" and "eww moments" are cheap. Okay if done in moderation, but uninspiring when used as the main delivery of scares. Pretty much every single movie that does this is poorly received.

There are three ways I can immediately think of, to make a good horror movie: make it atmospheric (Blair Witch, Rec, The Ring, 28 Days Later, Alien, The Host), cross-genres or parody (Shaun of the Dead, Cabin in the Woods, Tucker and Dale vs. Evil, Evil Dead), or tell an interesting story/message (I Am Legend, Battle Royale, Never Let Me Go, American Psycho).

Games based around jump scares tend to fare better and aren't automatically crap. Doom 3 and Dead Space hold their own because they are decent shooters. You can get through them without being scared and still have fun. Replace the monsters with Nazis or terrorists or whatever, and you've still got an okay game. However, the truly scary horror games deal in atmosphere. The best I can think of are Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Slender: The Eight Pages, SCP - Containment Breach, Silent Hill, Alien vs. Predator. (On that note, Slender is a small, free-to-play game and you can easily search it. I highly recommend it!)

I think the issue is that a lot of people just don't know how to make a good horror game/movie and resort to cheap thrills. Or they find it cheaper to go with cheap thrills, rather than taking the time to write a fantastic script and cast good actors. Horror movies aren't touched by award-season directors, because the academy thinks less of horror than even sci-fi. Big studios don't back them because they're not particularly safe bets. Indie companies with an interesting gimmick (like Paranormal Activity and Human Centipede) can achieve success, but it's more to do with the gimmick and less with the actual delivery.

So as it stands, the western horror market is just full of B-movies and gimmicks, where it once had a plethora of good ***les: Suspiria, Exorcist, Alien, Aliens, Omen, Silence of the Lambs, Shining, Rosemary's Baby etc.

In terms of good, modern, horror movies, you really have to scour the world. Non-US horror films seem to be more inspiring: Let the Right One In, Ju-on, Ringu, Battle Royale, Troll hunter, Pan's Labyrinth, The Host, 28 Days Later...

I dislike the horror genre. I fail to understand the mentality of "I want to watch a film and I also want to watch something that will scare me".

It engages your "fight-or-flight mode": http://www.livescience.com/4273-love-scared.html

Eraserhead

Lynch films in general.
I'm not a fan of his - I find it genuinely difficult to watch his films.

I really, really enjoyed Eraserhead. I think the reason it is difficult to watch is because it is a surrealist piece. Normally, surrealism in art is easier to cope with because you're not necessarily looking for some kind of tangible narrative to follow. But since we expect narrative in movies, trying to make sense of Eraserhead where none can be made makes it more of an unsettling experience.

I don't know if you've seen the David Firth animations (Salad Fingers and stuff), but he's clearly heavily inspired by Lynch, with a good sprinkling of Chris Morris-style humour. Those animations are also similarly unsettling to watch, although funny too. It's two very different emotions that are hard to reconcile!

 

[nickdnz]

Slender is great. I got my sister to play it at 3am in a dark room and she was freaked the hell out. We then got a phone call from my grandmother who lives a while away saying she was in trouble (turns out not really) - but that car drive she was still freaked out. I highly recommend as well, especially play at night by yourself, very, very scary.

 

[LittleGuy]

From a bit of a horror fan:

Shock films are terrible. Scares such as "jump scares" and "eww moments" are cheap. Okay if done in moderation, but uninspiring when used as the main delivery of scares. Pretty much every single movie that does this is poorly received.

There are three ways I can immediately think of, to make a good horror movie: make it atmospheric (Blair Witch, Rec, The Ring, 28 Days Later, Alien, The Host), cross-genres or parody (Shaun of the Dead, Cabin in the Woods, Tucker and Dale vs. Evil, Evil Dead), or tell an interesting story/message (I Am Legend, Battle Royale, Never Let Me Go, American Psycho).

Games based around jump scares tend to fare better and aren't automatically crap. Doom 3 and Dead Space hold their own because they are decent shooters. You can get through them without being scared and still have fun. Replace the monsters with Nazis or terrorists or whatever, and you've still got an okay game. However, the truly scary horror games deal in atmosphere. The best I can think of are Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Slender: The Eight Pages, SCP - Containment Breach, Silent Hill, Alien vs. Predator. (On that note, Slender is a small, free-to-play game and you can easily search it. I highly recommend it!)

I think the issue is that a lot of people just don't know how to make a good horror game/movie and resort to cheap thrills. Or they find it cheaper to go with cheap thrills, rather than taking the time to write a fantastic script and cast good actors. Horror movies aren't touched by award-season directors, because the academy thinks less of horror than even sci-fi. Big studios don't back them because they're not particularly safe bets. Indie companies with an interesting gimmick (like Paranormal Activity and Human Centipede) can achieve success, but it's more to do with the gimmick and less with the actual delivery.

So as it stands, the western horror market is just full of B-movies and gimmicks, where it once had a plethora of good ***les: Suspiria, Exorcist, Alien, Aliens, Omen, Silence of the Lambs, Shining, Rosemary's Baby etc.

In terms of good, modern, horror movies, you really have to scour the world. Non-US horror films seem to be more inspiring: Let the Right One In, Ju-on, Ringu, Battle Royale, Troll hunter, Pan's Labyrinth, The Host, 28 Days Later...


It engages your "fight-or-flight mode": http://www.livescience.com/4273-love-scared.html


I really, really enjoyed Eraserhead. I think the reason it is difficult to watch is because it is a surrealist piece. Normally, surrealism in art is easier to cope with because you're not necessarily looking for some kind of tangible narrative to follow. But since we expect narrative in movies, trying to make sense of Eraserhead where none can be made makes it more of an unsettling experience.

I don't know if you've seen the David Firth animations (Salad Fingers and stuff), but he's clearly heavily inspired by Lynch, with a good sprinkling of Chris Morris-style humour. Those animations are also similarly unsettling to watch, although funny too. It's two very different emotions that are hard to reconcile!

The first one way back in the late 90's early 00's as the Marine was quite possibly the most intense campaign I'd ever played. The vulnerability of the character(no saves for a level, though a patch later added some sparse saves/checkpoints), the darkness, the speed of the aliens, and worst of all the motion tracker's heart like beep, as Aliens came out of the dark to eviscerate you!!! I enjoyed the sequel as well, but haven't player the more recent ones, I went back to them now that I have them on Steam but they are a little dated unfortunately,maybe one day I'll have another go.

 

[Big Ewis]

Woah, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I agree that horror films aren't great (I'm pretty squeamish to gore) but there are lots of thriller and suspense films that scare the absolute ****e out of me and are utterly fantastic.

that's good. It means you have sensitivity. The least sensitive we are, the least human. I know some ppl who can watch a terrifying film, with haunting concepts that will have me pondering deep for the next 2 weeks, and when the movie is over, so is everything else for them, the imagination stops there. I personally don't envy these people, and would much rather be called soft or wtvr because I was given the ability to feel things in depth.
I believe all horror authors have that: Lovecraft, Poe (well, he as downright insane), or film makers like David Kronenburg.
Horror is the ultimate platform for imagination because it deals with the one thing that puts all of humanity on a common denominator and conforms us all: fear of the Unknown. Whtvr the unknown is, it frightens a common peasant as it does the most powerful of all kings.

But that's the glory of true horror.

* About such films as Erasehead and Lynch stuff: it's utterly bizarre, but closer to a circus of eerie imagination, and a conjuring of weird images. That's totally fine for me, and I feel that doesn't cross the line for it isn't too horribly 'harmful' in nature. It's just to the extreme point of bizarre.

* the Human Centipede: I find the premise excellent for a horror. A master-surgeon gone insane whose ultimate project of a masterpiece is to connect three people together, and make them into a pet-thing. The idea is absolutely amazing for any horror fan. But the idea is also fairly disturbing. I felt very weird for about 2-3 days after reading the premise...but then decided to watch it stoned with a couple of friends and it wasn't too bad...
The german actor (playing the doc) was awesome.

But shyt like Cannibal Holocaust and Salo and A Serbian Film and what not are simply full of ideas that were picked in the "no-no bin", that is, the bin of universal, objective no-no. Incest, a graphic depiction of rape or other things those movies contain (I won't mention) are simply harmful to any balanced, healthy mind from a developed, comfortable society. We would rather not know about them, not ever hear mention of it; and although it is part of reality and 'knowledge is power' and 'there isn't knowledge that isn't power', it's still best to be ignored and pretend like it's not there.
And there is CERTAINLY, most certainly no need to portray it some more in films or other media means.

 

[dullonien]

The only thing redeeming about the Human Centipede is that it spawned the absolutely hilarious South Park episode Human Cent-I-Pad. But other than that I generally agree with yoe and Dull these shock horror movies are generally worthless, vapid, unartistic trash. A couple have at least had some redeeming qualities I suppose, the first SAW, Se7en perhaps though I didn't particularly enjoy them myself.

When horror is at it's best though it can be quite the genre, sci-fi horror, psychological horror and even comedy horror have spawned a number of my favourite films.

Se7en is a quality film. Not sure it quite fits the Horror genre, although there is one scene which does.

From a bit of a horror fan:

Shock films are terrible. Scares such as "jump scares" and "eww moments" are cheap. Okay if done in moderation, but uninspiring when used as the main delivery of scares. Pretty much every single movie that does this is poorly received.

I agree 100%. Jump scares don't always work on me, although they sometimes catch me out, but usually more due to a sudden sound etc. As you say, in moderation they can really add to a good horror movie, but too many poorly scripted horror's rely on them, and it doesn't particularly scare me, or engage me in any way.

As you say, games fare much better in this regard. I still remember playing Resident Evil 2 in my early teens, on a PS1 without a memory card. The thought of losing all our progress made us all very jumpy which really added to it. I still remember one part where a licker attacked us through a window which caught us all off guard, as we had walked past that same window dozens of times, but has obviously picked up a new key or something. I think we made it down into the sewers on one life, but finally dived after playing for over 24 hours straight at some silly time in the morning. The person who was playing at the time was hated.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not quite as shocking as Serbian Film and that type of films (whose sole purpose is the shock factor), but Old Boy has it's moments.
Brilliant film.

 

[dullonien]

Not quite as shocking as Serbian Film and that type of films (whose sole purpose is the shock factor), but Old Boy has it's moments.
Brilliant film.

I've got that to watch, but haven't got around to it yet. Well I did start it one evening, but wasn't in the mood for subtitles.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've read some reviews of 'A Serbian Film' on IMBD, and I totally agree. There is no art in basically portraying the most disturbing and perverted things imaginable. I struggle to understand the mentality of whoever thought of such things, those who are willing to 'act' in such things, and especially those who want to actually watch them. Human Centipede is another that I will avoid at all costs, because I find the premise utterly disgusting.

Personally, I'm not a fan of shock horror. I'll happily watch a genuinely well written horror film, or a comedy style horror, but shock horror mostly revolves around depicting things which are mostly difficult to stomach. So whilst I've seen a few of the SAW films, I haven't enjoyed them, and don't wish to see the others. However, as films such as SAW are relatively watered down, I don't really have anything against them, or those that enjoy them.

It's not that I'm easily shocked, most of the time I just find shock horror movies a little boring.

I'd heard about 'A Serbian Film' before but never really thought about it, I just read the storyline on Wikipedia, it is disgusting. I'm going to steer
clear of it.

I don't like horror much either, I don't get the point. I find some of the big Hollywood productions are hilarious though,they're terribly done and the directors don't seem to understand what suspense and shock are!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'd heard about 'A Serbian Film' before but never really thought about it, I just read the storyline on Wikipedia, it is disgusting. I'm going to steer
clear of it.

I don't like horror much either, I don't get the point. I find some of the big Hollywood productions are hilarious though,they're terribly done and the directors don't seem to understand what suspense and shock are!

I would 110% stay clear of the Serbian Film unless you are tapped!