[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 3 : Scotland Vs England 24/02/2018 16:45

[RugbyMarvel]

I like the way we talk about the breakdown as if it's just another facet of play. It's not, it's the single most important one. 15 scrums a match, 20 line outs and 180+ breakdowns. Why wouldn't you have specialists to speed up your ball and slow down / steal theirs? Still scratching my head on this one.

Weirdly enough Eddie Jones doesn't seem to believe in a breakdown specialist, or just won't pick one. Made even more confusing by the fact pretty much every Premiership side has looked to employ a specialist 7, and every other 6N side does.

 

[TommiG88]

Lucky in the respect that Wales failed to convert chances and territory to points. England ground out the win. Ps theres no pessimism, ive stated previously how good England are and one loss does not make them a poor side. It has removed their cloak of invincibility however and the French and Irish will relish the challenge. Also think EJ can steer them to a WC. He has winning and perfectionist attitude

I'm hoping to see a massive reaction against France. I could see us battering them.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Weirdly enough Eddie Jones doesn't seem to believe in a breakdown specialist, or just won't pick one. Made even more confusing by the fact pretty much every Premiership side has looked to employ a specialist 7, and every other 6N side does.

It's an odd one I've been pondering for years now. I've come to the conclusion that somewhere dark in the stats department of English rugby some genius has crunched the numbers and decided that there's more chance of turning possession over by forcing the other team to make mistakes in contact or when under massive physical pressure. England therefore don't even attempt to contest really as the resetting of the defence is the primary concern. Turnover work is only actually attempted on the ground by a single individual should they see the chance (usually Mr D Cole giving away a pen). The problem is as soon as teams begin to operate at above 85% efficiency with ball in hand it's like watching the tide come in. England cede ground hoping for mistakes so they can revert to set pieces where they are happier. When teams don't make mistakes, we get beaten. Scotland mercilessly exploited our complete inability to compete. Watching Dan Cole in a text book guard position whilst less than a yard away John Barclay was standing there stealing the ball was infuriating. Because we don't plan to compete, we're lost when teams do. The Irish have known this for years. There will be a lot and I mean a lot of accidentally "look I'm trying to move" stuff going on and the tackled player will be held on to until the ref commands the tackler to release. Danny Care will stand there flapping his arms as unless it's on a silver platter he's scared to touch it. England actually need the breakdown reffed in a certain way to maximise their game plan. Any ref allowing a contest there is effectively favouring the other team. It's not bias, it's just what it is. Being unable to adapt to a ref is a significant English failing.

 

[Which Tyler]

There will be a lot and I mean a lot of accidentally "look I'm trying to move" stuff going on and the tackled player will be held on to until the ref commands the tackler to release. Danny Care will stand there flapping his arms as unless it's on a silver platter he's scared to touch it. England actually need the breakdown reffed in a certain way to maximise their game plan. Any ref allowing a contest there is effectively favouring the other team. It's not bias, it's just what it is. Being unable to adapt to a ref is a significant English failing.

Just reading that, and I think I've got it.
England's ref advisor, brought in regularly for sessions, is Wayne Barnes, who's far more hot on this stuff than most. If we were then being reffed by Barnes, we'd probably be fine, but we can't be, instead we tend to get Nige, who's the polar opposite at the breakdown.

 

[Nudger]

Removed more off topic nonsense.
Can we just talk about the rugby again?


What do we do with 9 going forwards?
I'm unconvinced by Care starting, but then there's not much in the way of other choices.
I think care definitely plays better when youngs is fit, And vice versa. They push each other to be better and if one is out of form usually the other one isn't.
Im not sure how I feel about dick wiggle starting even if he did have a good cameo off the bench.

Care doesn't have the kicking game that youngs has I thought his kicking was 5% off which gave Scotland a bit more space to run back at us.
So do we start wiggy or rip up our game plan???,

 

[Nudger]

I'm not sure I buy the conditioning thing, they say that about the French team and clubs and yet I have not seen either blown away in the final minutes of a game.

8 subs make a lot of difference

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Care doesn't have the kicking game that youngs has I thought his kicking was 5% off which gave Scotland a bit more space to run back at us.
So do we start wiggy or rip up our game plan???,

I've always been confused by Care's kicking... It's weird that for quins he can cross-field kick for days, but he struggles so much with box kicking. Don't know why, its just really strange

 

[Pom in Exile]

I think the Care non-try is very similar to the Anscombe non-try, the right outcome was reached through the wrong process. Owens not penalising Launchbury initially was wrong that was a penalty all day but Owens let's sides slow the ball down for 5-10 seconds due to a warped view that it lets the game flow, after the intercept he realised that the illegality in Launchbury's play allowed England to set and intercept and brought the play back. Theoretically he could have gone to the TMO to determine Launchbury's play but he'd have been criticised for that too, not penalising Launchbury and thus favouring England was his big mistake really.

You might well be right, but it's still **** poor refereeing, in fact doubly so.

 

[Derpus]

Just reading that, and I think I've got it.
England's ref advisor, brought in regularly for sessions, is Wayne Barnes, who's far more hot on this stuff than most. If we were then being reffed by Barnes, we'd probably be fine, but we can't be, instead we tend to get Nige, who's the polar opposite at the breakdown.

'England would probably do better if England were reffed by an Englishman'.

Mind blown.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

'England would probably do better if England were reffed by an Englishman'.

Mind blown.

That's not the point he's trying to make... It's all about different ways of reffing the breakdown

 

[Which Tyler]

'England would probably do better if England were reffed by an Englishman'.

Mind blown.

English comprehension, 15%
Dumassery, 85%

 

[The Jones Boy]

Reading your posts on this thread it's clear you have an extremely deep personal vendetta against Eddie Jones (I'm assuming it's an Aussie/Kiwi thing?) but to try & suggest he's done anything other than an excellent job so far is quite bizarre. Static improvement? He's taken us from a team who were knocked out in the group stage of our own World Cup to a team who equalled the longest ever winning run of internationals. We're now deservedly the #2 team in the world. Every team loses eventually, it's how you respond that reveals the most about where a team is at.

Oh really... ????
... And tell us about the response again...?

Candy - baby.

 

[Sixways Cheryl]

Oh really... ????
... And tell us about the response again...?

Candy - baby.

OK, lets ignore the last 2 & a half years of rugby (which is pretty clearly what I was referring to) and just concentrate on the last 6 weeks...

 

[Which Tyler]

Oh really... ????
... And tell us about the response again...?

Candy - baby.

IIRC We lost the #2 ranking after the Ireland match (though it may have been the previous weekend; though that matters not to the point at hand) - we haven't had the chance to respond yet; our first chance will be a (neutered) tour to South Africa; our first viable chance to respond comes in November.
Unless you have a time machine; you don't know how England have responded.