[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 4 : France Vs England (10/03/2018)

[The Jones Boy]

Your big problem is not the players.
England has excellent players like Courtenay Lawes who is an absolute world class lock.
Play him out of position and he's not world class. It's not his fault.
We played Kaino out of position in Chicago and ran him as a lock. He got his backside handed to him by the Irish locks that day.
He was still the best 6 in the world but as a lock... ahhh, no.

Danny Cipriani deserves a look in ahead of Ford, Cips has boat loads to offer but he never gets an even break in the England set up.
Steffon Armitage should have had a look in yonks ago.
Haskell is a powerhouse at the breakdown.
Underhill will return but his injury issues are a worry.
Farrell hasn't stopped being a top player.

It's the coach.
Eddie Jones is being found out and he has no answers.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Can we bring in players from outside the squad for Ire?

There are good cases to involve one or more of Isiekwe, Robson / Velacott, Big Joe and hell even Manu. And others.

 

[Maverick1987]

Your big problem is not the players.
England has excellent players like Courtenay Lawes who is an absolute world class lock.
Play him out of position and he's not world class. It's not his fault.
We played Kaino out of position in Chicago and ran him as a lock. He got his backside handed to him by the Irish locks that day.
He was still the best 6 in the world but as a lock... ahhh, no.

Danny Cipriani deserves a look in ahead of Ford, Cips has boat loads to offer but he never gets an even break in the England set up.
Steffon Armitage should have had a look in yonks ago.
Haskell is a powerhouse at the breakdown.
Underhill will return but his injury issues are a worry.
Farrell hasn't stopped being a top player.

It's the coach.
Eddie Jones is being found out and he has no answers.

Completely agree with your first paragraph .

I'm not sure I'd changed the backs . Even the NZ backs would be **** behind this pack .

Eddie Jones has been found out but I'm not sure he's run out of ideas just yet . This pack is nowhere near physical enough . Imo all he has to do I put the players in place and we will be extremely competitive again . I'm not sure the Lions tour has helped either . The players look flogged

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can we bring in players from outside the squad for Ire?

There are good cases to involve one or more of Isiekwe, Robson / Velacott, Big Joe and hell even Manu. And others.

Only as injury replacements, but we've got a few injuries so could call a few up. Robson for Nowell, for example.
Would be amazed if we did though.

I don't see the need to replace a wing or even call up a different lock.

 

[ncurd]

I think to be honest we have accept our issues can't be solved in a week, even a more balanced back row isn't going to change tactics. It's back to the drawing board and pray we lean from this come SA ready for the AI's

It's been a poor tournament but both games we could have won we've just come to expect so much from this England side. I'm also not going to get on a kill the coach bandwagon we had unprecendeted success with Jones to begin with he's got enough credit in the bank to earn a shot at the world cup. I just pray we don't enter another Lancaster situation where the decisions get worse as time goes on.

 

[Jimbo]

A view from the ground...

I don't need to cover our breakdown work, apart from it's an embarrassment for an international team to be so shoddy. I personnally think the Exeter team could beat England at the moment.

Changes in the back row against Ireland are required, unless we want to be on the end of a drubbing.

I'm not convinced Exeter would do much better for some reason the English really seem to be struggling to get to grips with the new ruck laws it seems to me, would also explain why the prem teams have not done well in Europe either, not sure why as a nation we are having so many more problems than others wonder if it's a result of our lack of jackling historically.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Only as injury replacements, but we've got a few injuries so could call a few up. Robson for Nowell, for example.
Would be amazed if we did though.

I don't see the need to replace a wing or even call up a different lock.

You're probably right, but with nothing at stake, except pride, it feels like an opportunity to try a few things.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Imo all he has to do I put the players in place and we will be extremely competitive again

But his stubbornness to persist with Hartley and Cole, not to blood a new SH etc suggests that may be a very big "all".

I'm not sure the Lions tour has helped either . The players look flogged

They do, but I'm pretty sure there were some Irishmen on the Lions tour too.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

But his stubbornness to persist with Hartley and Cole, not to blood a new SH etc suggests that may be a very big "all".


They do, but I'm pretty sure there were some Irishmen on the Lions tour too.

And most have been given sufficient rest by their clubs. The English have been flogged. Obviously we have more problems than that but it certainly doesn't help.

Actually looking at the Ireland team:
15. Kearney - Didn't go
14. Earls - Didn't go
13. Ringrose - Didn't go, has had months out with an injury to heal
12. Aki - Didn't go
11. Stockdale - Didn't go
10. Sexton - Went but has been rotated at Leinster
9. Murray - Went, idk about rotation but isn't in a very physical position regardless
8. Stander - Yeah he's been flogged.
7. Leavy - Didn't go
6. O'Mahony - Went, idk about rotation
5. Toner - Didn't go
4. Ryan - Didn't go
3. Furlong - Went, has been rotated
2. Best - Went, idk about rotation
1. Healy - Didn't go

Only 5 of the starting 15 toured and at least 2 of those have seen sufficient amounts of rotation.

England however; Watson, Daly, Te'o, Farrell, Lawes, Itoje, Cole, George and Vunipola of the starters and Marler, Sinckler, Haskell and Joseph of the bench all toured and very few have seen any rest through anything but injury.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Pre 6N there was a great set of stats re game time for the Lions players this season.

The Irish and Welsh lads had played in some cases under half amount of the English lads. Obviously will affect them, but shouldn't be used as an excuse too much...

 

[ratsapprentice]

long time lurker and a few drunken points to make...
Breakdown=Shite
Our inability to look after the ball is shocking.
I know this will go down like a lead balloon but Steffon Armitage really would make a world of difference. The man can carry and he'll win turnovers for days. Hasn't been in the spotlight for a while but he dominated in Pau vs Gloucester.
I thought Robshaw was admirable, seemed like the only bloke on the field playing with his heart. Feel for Lawes as he's a bloody good lock but just isn't an international 6.
Sod it, why not Cips over Ford? If you're gonna have a 10 that's gonna get trampled on no matter what, why not have one that can create something out of nothing?
Also, time for Cole to go. He looks lost out there. Sink was quality. And I hate to say it but thought Haskell brought a lot when he came on.

As you say... lead balloon.

 

[NDC89]

Got to agree that the Lions players (and a few others who played in Argentina look tired). Unsurprisingly, the Lions players who looked sharpest this tournament have had time off with either injury (Daly,, Nowell Haskell) or suspension (Sinkler). Hopefully the likes of George, Itoje, Watson, etc get a rest this summer.

As for this:

9. Murray - Went, idk about rotation but isn't in a very physical position regardless

As a 9 myself, and having played 10 and 15 quite a bit before too, I find 9 far more physically tiring than those other two. The amount of running is much greater. Plus I reckon for some 9s, and I would include murray in this, the tackle count is actually higher than some other backs.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I bet Jones will change little. Harley back in, Brown bank in, Cole still to start, Simmonds at 8 with Haskell at 7 leading to another shaming at the breakdown

 

[RugbyMarvel]

EJ won't experiement hugely, and I can't see him introducing more than one new player to the squad realistically. Possibly a back rower if Hughes is out? I am guessing he won't swallow his pride and select Armand though...

For EJ, I reckon he will see the Ireland game as an opportunity to spoil the party, more than an opportunity to experiment.

The tour to SA will be key in making changes, there are a lot of new faces and combinations that need to be tried.

 

[Scotty]

I admit i was alittle drunk by the second half, how did LCD hold up?

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I admit i was alittle drunk by the second half, how did LCD hold up?

He carried well but after watching those final minutes again he did make some glaring errors which will be very big marks on his card. Totally messed up a key line out throw then knocked it on in the final phase, totally missing he overlap opportunity.

Shame as he has some great physical attributes and is so dynamic.

 

[Scotty]

He carried well but after watching those final minutes again he did make some glaring errors which will be very big marks on his card. Totally messed up a key line out throw then knocked it on in the final phase, totally missing he overlap opportunity.

Shame as he has some great physical attributes and is so dynamic.

He has 97% lineouts this season ar chiefs, is he miss down to nerves and lack of experience at this level? Done enough to play against ireland?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

He very nearly messed up the second lineout too - very clear double pump, i was surprised the ref didn't call it

I'd start him vs Ireland cause **** it why not?
We need these guys getting game time and him made a very noticeable difference to our physicality when he came on

 

[ratsapprentice]

He very nearly messed up the second lineout too - very clear double pump, i was surprised the ref didn't call it

I'd start him vs Ireland cause **** it why not?
We need these guys getting game time and him made a very noticeable difference to our physicality when he came on

Clearly wasn't comfortable with the calls/system, hence the pumping...
I'd say his carry round the corner was because of this too, he's only been in camp for a few days.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

He has 97% lineouts this season ar chiefs, is he miss down to nerves and lack of experience at this level? Done enough to play against ireland?

It would interesting to see the breakdown of the 97% ie front/middle/back for Exeter Chiefs. The overthrown lineout he threw yesterday was to the back and he overthrew by quite a margin. Yes it is pressure to deliver when he comes on, but then his throwing technique is going to be exposed when most nervous. A bit like tennis players with their ball toss going totally awry when serving for a really big point. That's what LCD throwing in reminds of when he throws in for England.

I also accept it is also down to the line out call and timing of the jump and not all down to LCD. I don't watch Exeter Chief, but when I see him play for England and throwing in it doesn't fill me with any confidence, unless he is throwing to the front. But then that really limits England's line out options especially yesterday when we were 5 metres out from the French try line.