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New laws

die_mole

International
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Dec 17, 2015
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Throwing the ball into the scrum
Law 20.5 & 20.5 (d) 5

No signal from referee. The scrum-half must throw the ball in straight, but is allowed to align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, therefore allowing them to stand a shoulder width towards their own side of the middle line.

Rationale: To promote scrum stability, a fair contest for possession while also giving the advantage to the team throwing in.

Handling in the scrum – exception
Law 20.9 (b)

The number eight shall be allowed to pick the ball from the feet of the second-rows.

Rationale: To promote continuity.

Striking after the throw-in
Law 20

Once the ball touches the ground in the tunnel, any front-row player may use either foot to try to win possession of the ball. One player from the team who put the ball in must strike for the ball.

Rationale: To promote a fair contest for possession.

Sanction: Free-kick

Law 15.4 (c)
The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then can only play from their own side of the tackle "gate".

Rationale: To make the tackle/ruck simpler for players and referees and more consistent with the rest of that law.

Ruck
Law 16

A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside lines are created. Players on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives, no hands can be used.

Rationale: To make the ruck simpler for players and referees.

Other ruck offences
Law 16.4

A player must not kick the ball out of a ruck. The player can only hook it in a backwards motion.

Rationale: To promote player welfare and to make it consistent with scrum law.

Sanction: Penalty
http://www.englandrugby.com/news/world-rugby-announce-six-law-changes/
 
Great initiative to create the topic, I was about to do the same.

I've got a question. When is the ball considered to be inside the ruck under the new regulations?
 
Great initiative to create the topic, I was about to do the same.

I've got a question. When is the ball considered to be inside the ruck under the new regulations?
I've asked and the USA rugby referee page and haven't gotten answer from kurt weaver, our top ref.

I have no idea since it now includes something in parenthensis about tackled player and tackled.

Hopefully this gets answered shortly.
 
New ruck will bring lots of penalties till player get it xD.

Scrum basically is dead. Fast hook and 8 picking it up to pass/short ruck.
 
Interesting.

Scrums
It remains to be seen whether refs strictly police the straight feed - the law has always stipulated straight feed but refs just seemed to let skew feeds go on. Time will tell.
I'm definitely in favour of at least one strike as compulsory - need to get some old fashioned skills re-introduced. Just hope 9 doesn't continue with skew feeds and the front row just hooks for appearances sake.
Not sure that I agree with 9 standing up to shoulder width on his side of scrum. I can see how that might encourage straighter feeds but the advantage is overwhelming - not sure that it really is a fair contest for possession. It's like saying the throw in at the line-out can be over your line as long as it's straight!

Rucks
Definitely in favour of new law on definition of a ruck. Don't want to see the farce we saw in 6N Eng v Italy again.
 
"A player must not kick the ball out of a ruck. The player can only hook it in a backwards motion."

oh it's about bloody time! Sick of seeing players trying to do this, it's a negative tactic, either win the ball fairly or let the opposition recycle it
 
I've asked and the USA rugby referee page and haven't gotten answer from kurt weaver, our top ref.

I have no idea since it now includes something in parenthensis about tackled player and tackled.

Hopefully this gets answered shortly.
Ugh sorry mate I meant to say scrum but the website was slow as hell and wouldn't let me modify my message last night before going to bed... I eventually gave up

Although it is also relevant to understand how a ruck will form from now on! When is a player considered to be "over" the ball? That seems to generate more confusion than being a helpful measure IMO
 
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I think it's all valid and long overdue changes.

I would have added another one, with regards to time. During the set of the scrum, time will be off. as soon as the ball is being put in the scrum, time will be on. If the scrum collapses, or a scrum reset has to happen, time will be off during reset of the scrum.

I think this will stop many teams from wasting time even before the ball is being put in.
 
I'm not sure the scrum change will work. If the defending team choose not to strike for the ball, they'll likely have a stronger scrum than the attacking team who'll be slightly depowered due to having to strike. That could destabilize things.

Take the hit out of the scrum altogether. Any shoving before the ball is put in leads to an immediate free kick. Once the ball is put in, it's fair game.

All other changes seem to make sense.
 
OK, so here's my opinon on the Laws to be trialled this Autumn
Law 20.5 & 20.5 (d) 5
No signal from referee. The scrum-half must throw the ball in straight, but is allowed to align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, therefore allowing them to stand a shoulder width towards their own side of the middle line.

First, it has taken WR far too long to realise that having the referee determine when to put the ball in was a mistake. There are only nine people on the field who know when they are ready for the throw in, and the referee is not one if them.

Second, I'm happy enough with the shoulder alignment thing, so long as the SH now has to throw the ball in STRAIGHT!!! (I wonder what @Dunhookin will have to say about this?)

Handling in the scrum – exception
Law 20.9 (b)
The number eight shall be allowed to pick the ball from the feet of the second-rows.

This is just legitimizing what is already current practice.

Striking after the throw-in
Law 20
Once the ball touches the ground in the tunnel, any front-row player may use either foot to try to win possession of the ball. One player from the team who put the ball in must strike for the ball.
Rationale: To promote a fair contest for possession.
Sanction: Free-kick

Sounds like they have been listening to me... or at least, HALF listening to me. They have only done half the job!! The opposing FR should also be compelled to strike.

Law 15.4 (c)
The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then can only play from their own side of the tackle "gate".

Law 16
A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside lines are created. Players on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives, no hands can be used.

These two should combine to make the breakdown easier to manage and to put a stop that tactic employed by both the Chiefs and Italy of not forming a ruck so that they can lurk in opposition back-lines

I have heard arguments that taking away the tackler's rights to play from any direction will make pilfering the ball a lot harder. I completely disagree with that view! Currently, how often do we actually see the tackler get to his feet quickly enough to play the ball from whatever direction he is in? Most times, he is cleaned out or the ruck forms before he has the chance to get hands on the ball anyway; its the arriving jackler who gets most of the turnovers (either by a straight pilfer or by a PK for the tackled player not releasing). Even worse, a tackler who tries to grab the ball from the opponent's side of the breakdown, and fails, is more likely to end up in the opponent's side of the ruck (through no fault of his own) and blocking quick ball.

IME, its the arriving player who seems to be completely unaffected by the changes... the first player to the tackle is still allowed hands on the ball - as before, Law 16.4(b) - and opposing arriving players would have to go though the gate - Law 15.6 (d) - regardless of the quicker appearance of the ruck offside lines. This offside line formation is only going to affect those who want to hang back and wait on the wrong side; and although I concede that it will make defending a line beak more difficult than currently, its still not nigh on impossible the way it was with offside at the tackle ELV..

Other ruck offences
Law 16.4
A player must not kick the ball out of a ruck. The player can only hook it in a backwards motion.
Rationale: To promote player welfare and to make it consistent with scrum law.
Sanction: Penalty

A - fracking - men to that!!!

Kicking the ball out of the ruck is a negative action, designed disrupt already won possession and quick ball at its source, not compete for it.
 
Great initiative to create the topic, I was about to do the same.

I've got a question. When is the ball considered to be inside the ruck under the new regulations?

I had a chat to a local referee who had seen the changes ahead of time and he had asked the same question.

The answer he got was a bit vague, but it seems that when a player enters the tackle on his feet to form a ruck, a line through the back his hindmost feet is his team's offside line, and the line through the tackle gate on his opponent's side of the tackle is the opponent's ruck offside line, until an opponent joins, then that player's feet mark the offside line. If the ball is not clear of bodies between those lines, then it still in the ruck.
 
I've got another question: If the offending front row is also allowed to strike for the ball (is there a difference with hooking the ball?), wouldn't that cause front rows to lift one another up as a consequence of wanting to get nearer to the ball?
 
I've got another question: If the offending front row is also allowed to strike for the ball (is there a difference with hooking the ball?), wouldn't that cause front rows to lift one another up as a consequence of wanting to get nearer to the ball?

Well, there's a couple of ways this can go.

Some props might go for the hook, but the issue isn't necessarily to be closer to the ball, but rather the technical skill to hook the ball properly. Now while this may result in more astute hookers and props to win a tighthead. Other teams who have strong props, would rather try and overpower their opposition if they don't have the skill to hook the ball. So the contest at scrum time will revert to it's glory days (I Hope).
 
Well, there's a couple of ways this can go.

Some props might go for the hook, but the issue isn't necessarily to be closer to the ball, but rather the technical skill to hook the ball properly. Now while this may result in more astute hookers and props to win a tighthead. Other teams who have strong props, would rather try and overpower their opposition if they don't have the skill to hook the ball. So the contest at scrum time will revert to it's glory days (I Hope).


I'm cautiously enthusiastic about thees scrum changes.

As I understand it, they are trying to overcome a problem which I have posted about here before... the team throwing in has a 7 v 8 pushing disadvantage that has sometimes resulted in the ball sitting in the tunnel with nobody hooking it (neither hooker being prepared to stop pushing long enough to stick his leg out to strike. The problem is that when the ball is fed, the opposition team can immediately push with all eight of their players , whereas the hooker of the team thowing in has to strike first and then get his feet back, and that takes a fraction of a second. It is very difficult to get your feet back when you are already being pushed backwards. So, this is essentially what leads to the crooked feed.

WR's approach to this is novel

1. Stand the SH so that his left shoulder is aligned with the centreline of the scrum
2. Feed the ball straight along that line

These two bring the ball closer to the hooker to make it easier to hook. and now the trade-off

3. The hooker (or another FR player) MUST hook the ball

As I see it, standing the SH a little closer to his own hooker compensates for the small head start that the opposing scrum get in pushing, so the feeding team will find it easier to get the ball clear, and make it a little harder for the opposition to push them off the ball

Clever... I hope it works
 

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