New Scrum: Who will be favored?

[Jaguares]

Revised scrum laws will help Wallabies bounce back: Blades

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The under-fire Wallabies scrum could have found an unexpected ally in new laws limiting the advantage of heavy forward packs.
Desperate to salvage respect for Australian scrummaging after its annihilation at the hands of the British and Irish Lions in the third Test last month, the Wallabies believe the new ''crouch-bind-set'' sequence will shift the balance away from raw power and back towards technical prowess.
Wallabies set-piece coach Andrew Blades, whose work in the year leading up to that 41-16 loss helped largely dismantle Australia's reputation as inferior scrummagers, said the change would suit the side's focus on the scrum as a whole-of-unit effort.
''It will go back a little to what it was maybe 10 or 15 years ago in terms of guys technically having to learn how to create a drive together as a unit, off a standing start,'' Blades said.
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''Because we haven't been one of the bigger packs in world rugby, that pure smacking in off the engagement is something … that's worked against us.
''Whereas now, it's going to become a more technical scrummaging area and that's where our guys will be able to adapt and get into a good position off the engagement. It will be a lot more about combination.''
The Rugby Championship, which kicks off with the first Bledisloe Cup Test in Sydney this weekend, will operate with the new laws so teams can be in sync with the northern hemisphere when the Wallabies and All Blacks tour there in November.
The new sequence, another evolution from ''crouch-touch-set'' and its predecessor, ''crouch-touch-pause-engage'', will have the props bind with their opposing player, using their outside arm, before engaging.
Then, once the referee has called ''set'', the feeding halfback will have to wait for the referee's call to put the ball in. There will also be greater emphasis on making sure the ball is fed straight.
The changes are supposed to reduce the impact of the collision by 25 per cent and slash the number of collapses and resets.
Wallabies coach Ewen McKenzie said this week that there was a high degree of ''crystal ball'' work to be done around the scrum because little was known about how the changes would affect the game.
A referees' meeting was held in Europe last week to work through some of the issues and some of that feedback is expected to filter through this week before the first Test match on Saturday.
It is believed it will lead to a renewed focus on the technical work of the hooker, who may find it harder to work the ball back through his teammates behind him.
And it appears to already be having an impact on selection, after uncapped Reds youngster Albert Anae was picked in the 30-man squad, at least partly because his powerful build is expected to give the Wallabies an advantage.
''Guys who are physically strong and co-ordinated will be able to adapt to these new laws a bit better,'' Blades said.
''Over the past couple of years, teams have hit, put the ball in straight away and it's been a real power thing off the engagement.
''Now it's going to come down to guys being able to actually generate power from a standing start. So big strong guys like [Anae], if they can get their technique right, should be able to prosper.''
The Australian scrum can't take a trick. The cumulative effects of superior performances such as the November Test against England at Twickenham last year and the second Lions Test in Melbourne can be washed away with one bad game.
Blades believes the Lions used that to their advantage during the third Test, when the Wallabies fell foul of referee Romain Poite and his assistant, Craig Joubert, time and again.
''Teams have used that as an advantage to set referees up and say 'we feel like we want to dominate, if things go wrong we want to get the benefit of the doubt','' he said.
''We've worked hard to work that away but when that tactic is used, and you have a poor performance, then it's easy to settle into that pattern again.
''[Poite] referees not to the law book but to the feel of who he feels is dominating mentally and physically in the game.
''They were allowed to do things that you wouldn't get away with in other games. But we knew it was coming and we didn't adapt to it. That was the disappointing thing.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...back-blades-20130811-2rq93.html#ixzz2bm3373NT

All Blacks test new scrum laws ahead of first Bledisloe Cup Test against Wallabies.

All Blacks coach Steve Hansen says the chance to test new scrum laws in Friday's double-header training match against Canterbury and Wellington in Lower Hutt proved invaluable.
With the Rugby Championship kicking off against Australia in Sydney next week, Hansen's mix-and-match All Blacks team ran in three tries to beat Canterbury 19-0 and two in downing Wellington 12-7 in front of a 6000-strong crowd at the Hutt Recreation Ground.
The new engagement calls - crouch, bind, engage - are aimed at decreasing the number of resets and reducing impact at the scrum hit by 25 per cent.
Hansen said the two 40-minute games gave his players a good chance to test-drive the new laws which will be in place for the Rugby Championship.
"To go into a test match with new scrum laws that you've never played before would have been a nightmare," he said.
Hansen admitted there were still plenty of resets in both 40-minute games, although he suggested that might have had more to do with the quality of the opposition the All Blacks were facing.

"But if we persevere with it, the new rules are going to be OK."
All Blacks captain Richie McCaw, returning to elite rugby after a six-month sabbatical, says his team are still working through the changes.
"It didn't feel much different out there, but I don't think you can expect it to be perfect straight away," the 116-Test flanker said.
"From our point of view, we've got to believe and work at getting better at it. I think we'll get better each time we get out there, and we'll have taken away things tonight on what we need to change or keep."
New scrum laws aside, Hansen says the up-front physicality of Friday's matches was exactly what was needed.
"We wanted a game that was going to ebb and flow a bit, with a lot of intensity and physicality.
"We've had guys out for three or four weeks not playing, so we weren't too bother by structures or skill execution - it was about getting out there and having the 80 minutes on the track."

Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/All-Blacks-t...5/articleID/308401/Default.aspx#ixzz2bm3uDvp2



Boks must learn to scrum all over again

The "hit" may be gone, but the Springbok scrum will still be full of grunt when South Africa face Argentina at the FNB Stadium next Saturday.
It will be the first time the Boks play under the new scrum engagement law that requires front row forwards to first bind before the actual scrumming commences.
The trial by the IRB, which has been adopted by Sanzar, has already been in use in the First Division of the Currie Cup while Europe will play according to the new laws when their new seasons get under way.
Referees will in future call "crouch, bind, set" and then only will the two packs be allowed to scrum against each other. The IRB hope to reduce the impact of the "hit" on the players' welfare and also consolidate the first time scrum completion rate, thus speeding up the game.
Some, including Hurricanes scrum coach Don Cron, believes the Boks will now be at a disadvantge because they will now have to learn to scrum, rather than bank on their bulk to get momentum at the time of engagement.
"In my opinion, for the lesser scrums there's no hiding now ... no tactics, no hit-and-run. You've got to man up and fight to the death now," Cron told New Zealand's Dominion Post. He added: "Pretty much any South African tighthead (prop) is going to have to sharpen up a bit."
Bok hooker Adriaan Strauss agreed with Cron, but added there would still be plenty of grunt at scrum-time. "The traditional hit is gone and we'll have to work a lot harder than before. With the hit you could get yourself into a good position, now we're all working from the same base.
"You're going to have to work hard throughout the game, but there will still be grunt. We're just going to have to up our work-rate."
Strauss said Bok scrum coach Pieter de Villiers had spent a lot of time with the forwards ensuring they're ready for the new engagement law next weekend.
"The law's changed for everyone, so I suppose it'll come down to who adapts quickest. We're ready for it, coach Pieter has been working towards this change for some time now so we know what to expect."
Strauss, however, added it would still take a bit of time for everyone in the front row to fully get into synch. "We're all going to have to wait and see where the trends go. We'll pick up things in the game as we go along and adapt accordingly."
All Blacks hooker Andrew Hore told The New Zealand Herald the new scrum laws were good for the game.
"The hit's not as hard ... we are chipping away in there but I think the hooker is going to find it a little bit harder to hook the ball.
"We have the rules there where the scrumhalf has got to put it in down the middle and the referees are calling it in."
He added: "The props are keen because there were no collapses (in the training session). There is nowhere to hide; you can't dive to the ground so you are locked in. Hopefully if we do things right and work off a short hit we should be pretty good." - The Star

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/springboks/boks-must-learn-to-scrum-all-over-again-1.1559745

 

[big ginger 8]

I think it's going to favor the bigger and stronger pack and not be about technique as much because you're already bound. Had a bit of a meeting about it today it'll certainly be interesting to see how it plays out.

Actually not sure how legal the tighthead is in that video he's fine at the start but after he adjusts I wouldn't consider that legal.

 

[Draggs]

Crims, because they can't scrummage.
Wonder how this will affect our rotund front rowers. Could help Geth.

 

[j'nuh]

I can't tell who it helps. It removes a fair bit of the scrum lottery where refs aren't entirely sure who infringed, but it may just reduce the penalty count altogether, reducing the advantage taken from the team with the stronger scrum. I suspect it emphasises a prop's dominance whilst simultaneously reducing his influence over the game as a whole.

eg, before, where the better scrummager may have won 6-3 in penalty count for a net gain of +3 penalties and winning 67% of his scrums, he may now win 2-0 in the penalty count, hence winning a smaller net gain, but winning a bigger percentage of the scrums.

 

[smartcooky]

Two things wrong with this poll

1. There ought to have been an option to vote "none of the above", i.e. you don't think it will favour any team

2. It needed to be multiple choice so that you could vote for more than one team.


IMO Blades has got this wrong. I think it will favour everyone except the Wallabies. They relied on getting good "hit" to remain competitive, that's why they often took the scrum down when they lost the hit, especially on their own throw in.

Now that they don't have a player who was arguably their best scrummager (Benn Robinson) they are going to struggle. Even with him, they had their arses handed to them by the Lions; without him, I expect a continuation of that in the RC.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Basically it should make teams that rely on power (the hit) suffer, and stronger teams/players will benefit.
Short, fat props will love it and heavier players shouldn't have any more of an inherent advantage than they do already.

 

[Ziggy]

Don't know if I like it or not, as long as it doesn't turn into a league scrum and the hit and competition for the ball is still there ill be happy.

 

[dullonien]

As ratsapprentice has said, imo it will benefit stronger scrummaging props, the kind where the longer a scrum lasts the better they get. Austrailia currently rely on quick reactions at the scrum, attempting to get the nod on the hit. This influence should be reduced, and thus Autrailia's props will need to rely on power and scrummaging technique, something they lack atm.

The likes of Adam Jones should relish the new laws as weaker opposition will have less chance to get the jump on him.

Referee's should also find their jobs slightly easier, hopefully resulting in less guesswork when it comes to awarding penalties, again helping the stronger scrum.

Finally, if the rule about scrum halves feeding the ball straight is finally enforced, then there could be a bigger impact on the hookers than there is on the props. Will the likes of Hibbard be as effective when he has to hook the ball before getting in a position to assert some power?

I'm looking forward to see the true effects of these law changes/interpretations. Hopefully there will be a greater contest, less re-sets, and better completion rate. It may mean that strong scrummaging packs don't win as many penalties, but instead any dominance can still help the backline find a little more space as the opposition flankers will be tied in.

 

[Superalexmarket]

 

[lynam1104]

I'm fairly certain it will favor the props who are better technically then those who are just more powerful than their opposition. In theory this law change should go a long way to sort out scrum issues as it will be easier to get basic such as binding right.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Guys, just watch the Currie Cup games that were played over the weekend with the new laws. The results IMO:

- less resets which is good
- the ref got the calls right a lot more; not all the time but certainly a lot easier on them (until all the smart props figure out how to get away with whatever of course)
- the stronger scrum with the best positioning got rewards for their dominance and it's no longer a pure lottery. I'd even go as far as to say the Bulls manages a draw with WP wholly on the back of their scrum

I don't think any of SA, NZ or Argentina will have a significant advantage over the other but I do get the feeling that Aus might struggle in general; they do have props that might relish the new sequence but in general their scrums will suffer IE I expect the Wallabies will catch on pretty quick but I think the Aus SR teams will have their work cut out to not suffer next year at scrum time. No more getting away with dropping the scrum if you didn't get the better hit!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

As one article said, it's going to be the return of the Fatties!! It makes me reminisce about players like Os Du Randt, Richard Bands, Olo Brown and Kees Meeuws.

The heavier pack will definitely benefit from this. since the hit is gone, both teams will start with no advantage, and then the heavier pack starts to push, more weight vs. less weight... Technique will only help you up to a certain point. from there onwards, strength will be the main component.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Even though I am happy that this is happening, I do feel that this has been a massive PR victory for the IRB.

They've addressed the real issues (square and stationary, ball in straight) but they've done so at the same time as the new binding sequence.
It's quite clear to me that they are pushing the new bind as the major change, they have managed to save face by not having to admit that the current situation is entirely their fault.
Which does irk me more than slightly.

 

[smartcooky]

I'd even go as far as to say the Bulls manages a draw with WP wholly on the back of their scrum!

I watched that whole match (first time I have sat through an entire CC game for a couple of years). I was quite impressed with the referee for that match (Rasta Rasevenge?). I didn't see much wrong from him, nothing obviously controversial, and I thought he communicated well with the players and explained his decisions well too.

What did you think of his performance? I know you are WP fan, but try to temper your response?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

As one article said, it's going to be the return of the Fatties!! It makes me reminisce about players like Os Du Randt, Richard Bands, Olo Brown and Kees Meeuws.

The heavier pack will definitely benefit from this. since the hit is gone, both teams will start with no advantage, and then the heavier pack starts to push, more weight vs. less weight... Technique will only help you up to a certain point. from there onwards, strength will be the main component.

Yes. And that's as it should be IMO because me personally, I don't want to see athletic props. I like a prop to look like a prop and love that they get the benefit and that there is still a place in union for every different body type. The scrum is still a contest (even more so with the ref now more able to look at the scrum feed as well) but less restarts and the calls being less of a lottery means a vast improvement.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I watched that whole match (first time I have sat through an entire CC game for a couple of years). I was quite impressed with the referee for that match (Rasta Rasevenge?). I didn't see much wrong from him, nothing obviously controversial, and I thought he communicated well with the players and explained his decisions well too.

What did you think of his performance? I know you are WP fan, but try to temper your response?

LOL, I think the general consensus and indeed my own thoughts were that he had a very good game; clear like said and called it both ways and somehow managed to be technically correct (for the major part) without ruining the flow of the match. A very good reffing prospect for sure; he started out reffing 7's but has made a good show of that game and if he can keep it up he will be a good addition. We only have ourselves to blame for not winning that game.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I watched that whole match (first time I have sat through an entire CC game for a couple of years). I was quite impressed with the referee for that match (Rasta Rasevenge?). I didn't see much wrong from him, nothing obviously controversial, and I thought he communicated well with the players and explained his decisions well too.

What did you think of his performance? I know you are WP fan, but try to temper your response?

Rasta has been part of the 7's circuit for the last few years, and yes, he has been very good. He is the opposite of Jason Jaftha, and IMO Rasta should replace Jaftha at SR-level.

He did very well in that match, but like all the new young refs he goes to the TMO way too much...

 

[psychic duck]

Watching this, it would appear that 1) there will still be a big advantage for the stronger scrummaging team and front rowers will remain valued for scrummaging 2) it didn't seem to help the Aussies or at least the Waratahs were still **** here.

 

[big ginger 8]

Is there a teamsheet floating around for that Waratahs side?

That's a shambolic effort from the backrow particulary the 8 but I don't think that can be used as an accurate judgement.

Saturday's the big day that every serious scrum/forwards coach and frontrower is waiting for to see how this is actually done in practice and refereed by international refs.

 

[psychic duck]

Is there a teamsheet floating around for that Waratahs side?

That's a shambolic effort from the backrow particulary the 8 but I don't think that can be used as an accurate judgement.

Saturday's the big day that every serious scrum/forwards coach and frontrower is waiting for to see how this is actually done in practice and refereed by international refs.

It may not be a good Waratahs front row, but it still shows that the better scrummagers who adapt best will get an advantage over the crap ones and scrummaging will remain important.