New to the sport...

[Phil Stephens]

Hey everyone, first time poster here on the rugby forum and just starting to get into rugby as an American (kind of tough to follow here in the states though). I was just hoping some of you guys who know more about it could kind of fill me in on the sport. I'm mainly interested in the Guinness Premiership and already know all the clubs from the Skysports website, but also am interested in the internationals as well. Here is basically what I would like to know (that Wikipedia gave little/insufficient or no info on):

-What the derby matches are in the Guinness Premiership and what teams really hate each other
-Who some of the best players are from each team and what country they're from
-Brief history of teams (who the most successful clubs are, etc, etc)
-And, how (if at all) I could watch matches online or something so I can keep up with it


Anyway thanks a lot for anyone who responds and can help me out a little bit since I really like the game a lot.

 

[Flux]

Best players in the world? Dan Carter (New Zealand), Richie McCaw (New Zealand), Bryan Habana (South Africa), Fourie du Preez (South Africa), Sergio Parisse (Italy), Matt Giteau (Australia) and Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland) are the names you usually see thrown around. I'm sure there's more, but others will obviously have different opinions than me.

For online matches, I'd try justin.tv

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phil Stephens @ Dec 28 2009, 07:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hey everyone, first time poster here on the rugby forum and just starting to get into rugby as an American (kind of tough to follow here in the states though). I was just hoping some of you guys who know more about it could kind of fill me in on the sport. I'm mainly interested in the Guinness Premiership and already know all the clubs from the Skysports website, but also am interested in the internationals as well. Here is basically what I would like to know (that Wikipedia gave little/insufficient or no info on):

-What the derby matches are in the Guinness Premiership and what teams really hate each other
-Who some of the best players are from each team and what country they're from
-Brief history of teams (who the most successful clubs are, etc, etc)
-And, how (if at all) I could watch matches online or something so I can keep up with it


Anyway thanks a lot for anyone who responds and can help me out a little bit since I really like the game a lot.[/b]

Well there are 4 'London' teams, but 'London' Wasps play in High Wycombe and 'London Irish' play in Reading. Saracens play in Watford, which I would say is part of London; others wouldn't. Which leaves just Harlequins. Anyway, Quins have a decent rivalry with Irish and Wasps but it's not too intense.

Elsewhere, Bath and Gloucester in the West country is a big derby game and probably the biggest rivalry.

Bath and Leicester are traditionally the strongest teams, so their game is hotly contested.

As for players, I'll list ones I rate as the best in the league.

Schalk Brits, hooker, SA & Saracens.
Glen Jackson, fly half, NZ & Saracens.
Delon Armitage, fullback, England & London Irish.
Seilala Mapusua, centre, Samoa & London Irish.
Nick Evans, fly half, NZ & Harlequins.
Ugo Monye, wing, England & Harlequins.
Gonzalo Tiesi, centre, Argentina & Harlequins.
Simon Shaw, lock, England & Wasps.
Akapusi Qera, flanker, Fiji & Gloucester.
James Simpson-Daniel, wing, England & Gloucester.
Butch James, fly half, SA & Bath.
Euan Murray, prop, Scotland & Northampton.
Martin Castrogiovanni, prop, Italy & Leicester.
Lewis Moody, flanker, England & Leicester.
Toby Flood, fly half, England & Leicester.
Aaron Mauger, centre, NZ & Leicester.
Alesana Tuilagi, wing, Samoa & Leicester.
Carl Hayman, prop, NZ & Newcastle.

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phil Stephens @ Dec 28 2009, 08:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Hey everyone, first time poster here on the rugby forum and just starting to get into rugby as an American (kind of tough to follow here in the states though). I was just hoping some of you guys who know more about it could kind of fill me in on the sport. I'm mainly interested in the Guinness Premiership and already know all the clubs from the Skysports website, but also am interested in the internationals as well. Here is basically what I would like to know (that Wikipedia gave little/insufficient or no info on):

-What the derby matches are in the Guinness Premiership and what teams really hate each other
-Who some of the best players are from each team and what country they're from
-Brief history of teams (who the most successful clubs are, etc, etc)
-And, how (if at all) I could watch matches online or something so I can keep up with it


Anyway thanks a lot for anyone who responds and can help me out a little bit since I really like the game a lot.[/b]

All right. I'll do my best to answer your questions, but you obviously other will differ in opinions, I'll try and be unbias.

1. In the Guiness Premiership, the greatest rival I would say are the London Wasps vs Leicester Tigers. There are others, but those are really the big one, like the Lakers vs Celtics in Basketball.

2.
Best Active Internationals:

Ireland: Centre Brian O'Driscol (Captain of Leinster and Ireland, best Center in the World),Lock Paul O'Connell (Captain of Munster and British and Irish Lions 2009), Fly Half Ronan O'Gara (A player who used to be good but is in mixed form and now may be replaced by new talent Johnathan Sexton), Wing Tommy Bowe, Wing Luke Fitzgerald, Fullback Rob Kearney.'

France: Flanker Thierry Dusautoir (Captain of France), Lock Sébastien Chabal, Center Yannick Jauzion (Captain of Stade Toulousain), Wing Vincent Clerc, Wing Cedric Heymans.

England: Fly Half Johnny Wilkinson (Once considered best Fly Half in the world), Lock Steve Borthwick (Saracens and England Captain), Lock Simon Shaw, Flanker Tom Croft, Flanker Lewis Moody.

Wales: Ryan Jones (Captain of Ospreys and Wales), Prop Gethin Jenkins, Prop Duncan Jones, Prop Adam Jones, Fly Half Steven Jones, Center Jamie Roberts, Flanker Dafydd Jones, Flanker Martyn Williams, Wing Shane Williams.

Italy: Number 8 Sergio Parisse (Captain of Stade Français and Italy), Prop Martin Castrogiovanni, Fly Half Craig Gower (New to Rugby Union), Flanker Mauro Bergamasco

Scotland: Scrum Half Mike Blair (Captain of Edinburgh, Co-Captain of Scotland), Scrum Half Chris Cusiter (Co-Captian of Scotland).

USA: Flanker Todd Clever (Captain of USA), Fly Half Mike Hercus, Wing Takudzwa Ngwenya.

Best Southern Hemisphare Players.

New Zealand: Flanker Richie McCaw (Captain of Crusaders and New Zelealand, Player of the year 09, best Openside Flanker in the world), Fly Half Daniel Carter (best Fly Half in the world), Fullback Mils Muliaina (Captain of Cheifs), Lock Brad Thorn, Center Conrad Smith, Center Ma'a Nonu, Prop Tony Woodcock, Wing Sitiveni Sivivatu, Wing Cory Jane, Number 8 Kieran Read.

South Africa: Hooker John Smit (Captain of the Bulls and South Africa), Lock Victor Matfield (Best Lock in the World), Lock Bakkies Botha, Flanker Juan Smith (Captain of Cheetahs), Flanker Schalk Burger, Flanker Heinrich Brüssow, Number 8 Pierre Spies, Centre Jaque Fourie, Wing Bryan Habana, Wing JP Pieterson, Fly Half Morne Steyn, Fly Half Francois Steyn, Prop Tendai Mtawarira, Scrum Half Fourie du Preez.

Australia: Flanker Rocky Elsom (Captain of Australia), Fly Half Matt Giteau, Flanker David Pocock, Prop Matt Dunning (possibly the best player in the world), Scrum Half Will Genia, Center Berrick Barnes, Center Digby Ioane, Center Stirling Mortlock, Flanker George Smith.

Argenina: Flanker Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Captain of Argentina), Fly Half Felipe Contepomi , Fly Half Juan Martín Hernández, Hooker Mario Ledesma.

Samoa: Number 8 George Stowers (Captain of Samoa), Prop Cencus Johnston, Center Seilala Mapusua, Wing David Lemi, Wing Anitelia Tuilagi.

Fiji: Fly Half Seremaia Bai (Captain of Fiji), Fly Half Nicky Little, Wing Napolioni Nalaga, Wing Vilimoni Delasau, Scrum Half Mosese Rauluni.

Tonga: Paino Hehea (Captain of Tonga).


A current World XV would look like this. It is debatable so I'll give three options in what is believe is in order. Only current internationals, which means there is no players not playing internationally.

1. Tony Woodcock (NZ), Tendai Mtawarira (SA), Gethin Jenkins (Wales)
2. John Smit (SA), Mario Ledesma (Arg), Bismarck du Plessis (SA)
3. Martin Castrogiovanni (Italy), Adam Jones (Wales), Phil Vickery (Eng)
4. Bakkies Botha (SA), Ali Williams (NZ), Simon Shaw (Eng)
5. Victor Matfield (SA), Paul O'Connel (Ire) Brad Thorn (NZ)
6. Rocky Elsom (Aus), Juan Smit (SA), Schalk Burger (SA)
7. Richie McCaw (NZ), Heinrich Brüssow (SA), Thierry Dusautoir (France)
8. Sergio Parisse (Italy), Pierre Spies SA), Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Arg)
9. Fourie du Preez (SA), Will Genia (Aus), Mike Blair (Scotland)
10. Daniel Carter (NZ), Matt Giteau (Aus), Morne Steyn (SA)
11. Bryan Habana (SA), Sitiveni Sivivatu (NZ), Napolioni Nalaga (Fiji)
12. Jamie Roberts (Wales), Ma'a Nonu (NZ), Yannick Jauzion (France)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (Ire), Conrad Smith (NZ), Jaque Fourie (SA)
14. Corey Jane (NZ), Shane Williams (Wales), Cedric Heymans (France)
15. Mils Muliaina (NZ), Rob Kearney (Ire), Francois Steyn (SA)

Opinions may be different, though I'd say that they are considered the best players in those positions.

3. The most successful teams in NH would be Leicester Tigers, Munster and Toulouse. In the Southern Hemisphere the Crusaders are the most successful team.

4. I don't know sorry.

 

[Bullitt]

Re: the Premiership...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

-What the derby matches are in the Guinness Premiership and what teams really hate each other[/b]

The rivalries seem to work in areas of several clubs, although there's usually a main rivalry.
- The West Country lot (Bristol, Bath, Gloucester & Worcester) are all strong rivals - Bath and Gloucester is the main one.
- The Same for the London teams (Quins, SArfies, Wasps & Irish), although only Quins actually play in London these days. Quins and Irish are the ding-dong pairing being former flat-mates.
- Saints and Tigers is one of the (if not the) oldest rivalries in the league, although historically both looked up the table at Bedford and Coventry with envy.
- Because of their previous success Bath and Leicester have a rivalry, although this has died down as of late (unless you're still a Bath fan living in the 80's).
- Wasps and Tigers now is seen as the "Man Utd v Chelsea" whenever the media talk of it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

-Who some of the best players are from each team and what country they're from[/b]

Depends who you like. Some idiots will say Sackey is one of the best players going when he's clearly **** while others will say Hartly isn't fit to lace Mears boots... Which again is utter ********.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

-Brief history of teams (who the most successful clubs are, etc, etc)[/b]

-Tigers are the most successful team in the land and were the most professional team of the ametuer era. Have been European champions Twice.
-Bath are second in terms of success but haven't tasted any for years, they're the most amateur team in the pro era. First English European Champions.
-Wasps have never won anything in their history but are great at exploiting loopholes and RFU nepotism, hence becoming champions numerous times. European Champions Twice.
-Irish went bust and merged with Richmond RFC to reform and move to reading. Were nothing of note until recent seasons and are looking good now.
-Saints have always been the nearly men, regularly finishing second in just about every competition. Looking strong at present. Former European champions.
-Sarries are evil and everybody hates them. 2007 RWC champions.
-Gloucester are the best team of the noughties, finishing top of the league 4 or 5 times but have nothing to show for it thanks to the playoffs. Currently struggling.
-Newcastle are previous league champions because they did a Chelsea sand bought the league. Since then are perennial bottom feeders. Good reputation for developing youngsters.
-Worcester came up from ND1 and stayed up. On paper they have a deadly team and brilliant coach. Wonderful ground too & lots of fans. But they can't ever finish better then 2nd/3rd from bottom.
-Leeds are the Premierships 13th team... Too good for ND1 but not strong enough for the Premiership so there's a constant yo-yo effect on display.
- Quins are 'stooped' in history and are seen as the post ones. Often controversial to go with it, first Will Carling and then the Bloodgate scandal. Have the most distinctive shirts/colours in world sport.
- Sale. They won the league once. They don't play in Sale. I nearly forgot to write about them... shows how little there is to say!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

-And, how (if at all) I could watch matches online or something so I can keep up with it[/b]

There are numerous sites that stream the Premiership, Justin is one of the better ones. Otherwise it's Sky Sports online player and as of next season, ESPN too.

 

[feicarsinn]

Nick, Tommy Bowe > Cory Jane.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Dec 28 2009, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Prop Matt Dunning (possibly the best player in the world)[/b]

:lol:

 

[ExeChief]

Justin.tv is very reliable but not always the best quality, might be worth checking out myp2p.eu as they have many sources for Guiness Premiership games.

I'm not aware of any channel that is televising English Championship rugby but I went to watch Exeter play Nottingham earlier in the season and it was the most entertaining game I've been to for some time. The Guiness Premiership tag is not always a hallmark of quality (Worcester v Bath being a prime example of the dire games).

I get more of a buzz watching my lad's Junior side on a Sunday morning so I would say find a local team and get involved with them. There is a website called usarugby.org which has details of all the IRB affiliated teams in the US and the Teritorial Unions.

Best Player is subjective; most of the Colonials will be biased towards their hemisphere where professional Union has been played for considerably longer than up here on the top of the World. The likes of Carter/Wilkinson/Giteau/Steyn are the equivalent of Quarter Backs in Gridiron so they attract the celebrity status but it is the Forwards that win the games. I am generally in awe of any forward at any level who puts their body on the line every time they run out. In the Backs, Carter is immensely talented and the best around right now but for me Jonny Wilkinson wins it for sheer commitment to the game.

Try downloading the 1973 Barbarians V New Zealand or the 2009 Barbarians V New Zealand matches on a torrent.

 

[RC]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Dec 28 2009, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Nick, Tommy Bowe > Cory Jane.[/b]

Depends.
On the wing, yup, Tommy owns Cory, but Cory's great at Full Back...not seen Tommy at full back, however.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ExeChief @ Dec 28 2009, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Try downloading the 1973 Barbarians V New Zealand[/b]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZMd7PQavavw&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZMd7PQavavw&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Nickdnz]

Greatest game played was New Zealand vs Australia 2000 in Sydney Stadium, but people put the Baabaa's as greatest game, as it was the greatest game New Zealand lost . I rate Cory Jane as one of the best wings, but you could say the same about Tommy Bowe. Maybe my bias is showing. Either way, their both very good wings.

 

[ExeChief]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Dec 29 2009, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

...people put the Baabaa's as greatest game, as it was the greatest game New Zealand lost.[/b]

A great game combined with a New Zealand loss, does it get any better!

 

[Nickdnz]

For 4 million people, yes. For 6 billion others, maybe not.

 

[feicarsinn]

Look how cack the haka was in that vid.

 

[RC]

Cack?
Are you serious?
That's when the haka was at it's greatest. They had no idea what they were doing, slap the legs a couple of times - i swear a bunch of them were even clicking their fingers!
It's hillarious.
Now they try and make it scary. Booooooring!

 

[cyRil]

There's a distinctive lack of Lee Byrne on this thread.

 

[RC]

Yeah, he's relatively new to the sport also!

 

[cyRil]

+How on earth does Bowe 'own' Corey?!! Have you not seen him play?!

 

[RC]

Wait, are you being sarcastic?

 

[cyRil]

....Nope. I'm looking for rep off the SHers. I have decidedly little!