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New Zealand v Australia

I can't believe how much of a monumental let down Rocky Elsom has been. I mean, he's done alright, but the best player Brian O'Driscoll has ever played with? He had about five games to prove himself but was fairly non existent.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 19 2009, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Sep 20 2009, 12:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 19 2009, 05:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>FFS Kieran Read, where are your

TWO super ***les. Two more than the wankers south of Coolangatta have won.

I'm not ****** at Kiwis for winning. I'm ****** at all the bandwagon fans in Australia deathriding the Wallabies every time they lose.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Sep 21 2009, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I can't believe how much of a monumental let down Rocky Elsom has been. I mean, he's done alright, but the best player Brian O'Driscoll has ever played with? He had about five games to prove himself but was fairly non existent.[/b]

He's out of form but can't blame him whens hes getting rushed back into the side. He was our best last year before he went to Leinster. Horwill, Alexander, Moore have been more non-existant this series.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Sep 21 2009, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Sep 21 2009, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I can't believe how much of a monumental let down Rocky Elsom has been. I mean, he's done alright, but the best player Brian O'Driscoll has ever played with? He had about five games to prove himself but was fairly non existent.[/b]

He's out of form but can't blame him whens hes getting rushed back into the side. He was our best last year before he went to Leinster. Horwill, Alexander, Moore have been more non-existant this series.
[/b][/quote]

Would agree with that, Rocky is going to need a season of S14 to regroup after the retirement village he was playing in up north ;) He'll be a lot stronger next year.
 
wjd23104 and Dale had better realise that double posting isn't accepted on this forum. wjd23104 posted four times in a row and will receive a warning for this.
 
[/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 21 2009, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Sep 20 2009, 05:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 20 2009, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Sep 19 2009, 06:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Sep 19 2009, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Time to breed new players, so bascially probably an experimental game with experimental teams.

Bring on Argentina.[/b]

You would think and hope so. Henry has quite stubbornly refused to make many changes to the team.

Hosea Gear scored an NPC/ANZC record 14 trys in 2008, then backed that up with 8 tries in 4 games for the Junior All Blacks. Hes on well on track to beating his existing record in this years ANZC, scoring 4 tries in a single game.

Hes the most in form player in the country and he has played one test last year. Through all of Joe Roks shitty performances Gear has been left out of the team. Now with a dead rubber match, Joe starts on the wing again. Gear is on the bench, but only due to enforced injuries.

Why aren't we trying out new players ffs.
[/b][/quote]
Hosea Gear is overated. Cory Janes a fullback and played better at wing than Gear did. Anyone could have scored those four tries against counties (yeah even Joe).
[/b][/quote]

Bullshit. Hosea got 10 minutes. you cant compare how he played. Hes also got a different style then Jane. Janes a counter attacker, and he looks to set up other guys. Gear is an old school wing, a finisher through and through. Hes a winger, his job is to score tries and he does that in bucketloads.

How is he overrated. MOST TRYS IN ANZC/NPC EVER, 8 TRYS IN 4 GAMES FOR JABS. He is the strongest winger in the country, he doesnt have amazing acceleration but once he gets into 1st gear i would rate him at one of the fastest guys in the country. The way he made Karne Hesketh look like an unfit prop chasing after him was a sight to behold. It really ****** me off when guys like you say that his performances don't count because of the standard of opposition, the guy can only play whats in front of him ffs. he deserves a chance to prove himself.

Jeez how is he overrated.
[/b][/quote] You would rate him as what one of the 50th or 100th Fastest guys? Sivivatu, Jane, Masaga, Maitland, Zac Guilford Israel Dagg, A.leiua David Smith. Do i really need to go on listing guys that clearly have more pace than Gear? How bout Ranger, Koonwiyoo and Vainakolo. Go get some glasses.

[/b][/quote]
Jesus christ, what do you think a winger is supposed to do you? how old are you 12? wingers are finishers, they score tries. Hosea set an NPC ALL TIME RECORD. He deserves a chance. Its simple logic.

And your just taking the **** now. Gear made the NZ secondary schools 100 and 200m finals. He set records at Gisbourne boys, beating all those of his brother. Thats why he played heartland rugby at 17 and got signed by wellington at 18. This guy has been around for ages, hes only 25. Koonwiyoo? Vainakolo? Zac Guilford? google search them you will find they dont exist. Gear would be top 5 at least.

And whats this about Gear not performing against Canterbury? what game were you even watching? Wellingtons scrum got destroyed, and their forwards didnt win any possession. thats what lost them the match. Hosea Gear scored a length of the field try. How many did his opposite score? zero. Yet he somehow went missing? if he his players dont give him the ball, he cant score many tries kid.

I just hope Gear actually gets some gametime on the end of year tour, so you would look like even more of an idiot.
 
:bravo: danger, forget it man, this idiot dosn't know how to reason. The plain fact is, is that even if you put his accomplishments down to luck, which you would have to be a compleite f-wit to do so, he still has accomplished them and therefore deserves a decent trial. As for the number of wingers you rate faster then him, what are you baseing this on. Comments like "get some glasses"...:bravo:
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Sep 21 2009, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I can't believe how much of a monumental let down Rocky Elsom has been. I mean, he's done alright, but the best player Brian O'Driscoll has ever played with? He had about five games to prove himself but was fairly non existent.[/b]
Says a lot about the quality of players O'Driscoll has played with doesn't it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 21 2009, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 20 2009, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have missed out that he was the highest try scorer in the Pacific Cup, scoring INTERNATIONAL tries in every Pacific match and I believe he scored 7 tries all together, and if people actually watched those game, they would realise his work rate was very high, and he also helped set up other tries.[/b]
You have got to be kidding me! International thats a laugh. what do you think would happen if the allblacks played these International level teams, i don't think i'm being aggrogant when i say Tonga Samoa Fiji and Japan Would struggle to stay within 60points of the ABs. Thats not international.
[/b][/quote]

Unfortunatley thats exactly what it is, pure arrogance. By the way you have defamed Samoa, Fiji etc and the way yo say they wouldn't get within 60 points is unfair.

Samoa, Fiji, Tonga are good teams in their own right, dont forget that a lot of the AB's players are Tongan Samaon etc by birth so think how mch better these teams would be if the Pacific Islander born Kiwi's played for the country of their birth.
 
[/quote]
Jesus christ, what do you think a winger is supposed to do you? how old are you 12? wingers are finishers, they score tries. Hosea set an NPC ALL TIME RECORD. He deserves a chance. Its simple logic.

And your just taking the **** now. Gear made the NZ secondary schools 100 and 200m finals. He set records at Gisbourne boys, beating all those of his brother. Thats why he played heartland rugby at 17 and got signed by wellington at 18. This guy has been around for ages, hes only 25. Koonwiyoo? Vainakolo? Zac Guilford? google search them you will find they dont exist. Gear would be top 5 at least.

And whats this about Gear not performing against Canterbury? what game were you even watching? Wellingtons scrum got destroyed, and their forwards didnt win any possession. thats what lost them the match. Hosea Gear scored a length of the field try. How many did his opposite score? zero. Yet he somehow went missing? if he his players dont give him the ball, he cant score many tries kid.

I just hope Gear actually gets some gametime on the end of year tour, so you would look like even more of an idiot.
[/quote]

One I'm 23 . Two Just because i can't spell koonwiyoo (plays for Southland, use to play for Auckland), Vainakolo (Currently Playing Wing for Otago you know green boots from earlier this year) and Zac Guilford ( plays for Hawkes Bay, will be a Crusader next year) does not mean they don't exist. Three Air New Zealand Cup is a little different to Secondary school sprinting i'm not sure how you believe this proves hes one of the fastest wingers in NZ. I certainly wasn't saying these guys were better wingers. I assumed even someone with a full frontal lobotomy could make the connection between the sentence i highlighted and the players i listed. From watching the Air NZ Cup i think its clear that all of those guys are faster than Gear, so i was simply seeking clarification on how big the list of fastest players you had Gear on is. Gear Should get some game time but Sivi and Jane are 1 and 2 right now.
 
Fiji made it to the quater finals of the Rugby World Cup, beating Wales in the process, so I assume you believe beating Wales is an easy task, which is acheivable without an International standard squad? And is dosn't seem to be clear to a number of people myself included that the above mentioned are all faster then Hosea Gear. I would rate Hosea in the top 5 fastest wingers in NZ and within the top five for the amount of skill from a winger. I would consider not digging yourself into a deeper hole, as your opinions are appreciated, however your way of going about it seem to offend every which way. Again telling people to go do some research makes you come off as an idiot, and I have yet to see any really valid points from you so far. Yes NZ can beat Samoa, Fiji and Tonga on a regular basis, but to claim beating those teams is easy, and they arn't to international standards, especially with Fiji rated the 9th best team in the world, makes you sound like a fool.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 21 2009, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Fiji made it to the quater finals of the Rugby World Cup, beating Wales in the process, so I assume you believe beating Wales is an easy task, which is acheivable without an International standard squad? And is dosn't seem to be clear to a number of people myself included that the above mentioned are all faster then Hosea Gear. I would rate Hosea in the top 5 fastest wingers in NZ and within the top five for the amount of skill from a winger. I would consider not digging yourself into a deeper hole, as your opinions are appreciated, however your way of going about it seem to offend every which way.[/b]
Whilst i don't think beating the welsh would be hard for the ABs you make a good point. But When NZ sends a B team and goes through the Comp Unbeaten (i think we certainly have before)
what does that say about the Competition. Besides as i say above its not the same as the level of played in the Tri nations or Six nations. This all goes back to my point that scoring a few (8 i'm told) trys in the pacific cup is not a Gear must be selected thing. He's third best at the moment behind Sivi and Jane ( i still like joe better as well but i'll never be able convince anyone of that).
 
I'm a huge fan of Joe, and I think he should remain ahead of Sivivatu perhaps, but I honestly can't say I have seen how Hosea has handled international pressure before, and I think everyone has been saying that until he gets more game time, an informed decision can't be made, however judgeing on his form so far, he has ticked every box in every chance he has been given. He had a great Super 14 until injury. The last two Air New Zealand Cups, he has been by far the stand out of the competition, and when given a shot against the Pacific 6 Nations, he took that oppertunity as well and scored as you put it eight tries. Now your argument has been the oppersition has been crap that he has been scoring against, however every other winger you have mentioned including Lelia Masaga, Zac Guilford, David Smith, Vanikolo ect, havn't scored as many tries. You can argue it is because they are not part of as solid a team, however no players from Canterbury have scored as many tries, and they are arguably one of the most solid performers, and Hawks Bay which are coming second, with Zac Guilford having scored 5 tries to Hosea's 8.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 21 2009, 08:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Sep 21 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 21 2009, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 20 2009, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We have missed out that he was the highest try scorer in the Pacific Cup, scoring INTERNATIONAL tries in every Pacific match and I believe he scored 7 tries all together, and if people actually watched those game, they would realise his work rate was very high, and he also helped set up other tries.[/b]
You have got to be kidding me! International thats a laugh. what do you think would happen if the allblacks played these International level teams, i don't think i'm being aggrogant when i say Tonga Samoa Fiji and Japan Would struggle to stay within 60points of the ABs. Thats not international.
[/b][/quote]

Unfortunatley thats exactly what it is, pure arrogance. By the way you have defamed Samoa, Fiji etc and the way yo say they wouldn't get within 60 points is unfair.

Samoa, Fiji, Tonga are good teams in their own right, dont forget that a lot of the AB's players are Tongan Samaon etc by birth so think how mch better these teams would be if the Pacific Islander born Kiwi's played for the country of their birth.
[/b][/quote]
Don't even go there. There are more NZ born players in those teams than pacific born players in the current allblack line up. Actually do some research before going to the old and tired northern misinformation. The Tongan, Samoan and Fijian Teams don't play the ABs between world cups any more because they lost by so much i believe the Last time NZ played Tonga it was 102-6 and Fiji the last time might have been in the seventies. They don't get all their top players between World Cups. It isn't arrogance if all the evidence suggests its true. The ABs can't prove or disprove my point obviously ut the point was more that playing for the Jabs in the Pacific cup is a different level of rugby to the Six Nations or Tri Nations.
[/b][/quote]

I'm quoting this post from above and deleting the multiple post from wjd23104. You cannot continue to double, triple or even quadruple post, wjd23104.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Sep 21 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
dont forget that a lot of the AB's players are Tongan Samaon etc by birth so think how mch better these teams would be if the Pacific Islander born Kiwi's played for the country of their birth.[/b]

If there was a rule changed stating that you could only play for the country you were actually born in, think what will happen to all these Island teams?? Catastrophic disaster it cripple the likes of Tonga and Samoa because you will find most island players are actually born in NZ
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TRUE LEGND @ Sep 21 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Sep 21 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
dont forget that a lot of the AB's players are Tongan Samaon etc by birth so think how mch better these teams would be if the Pacific Islander born Kiwi's played for the country of their birth.[/b]

If there was a rule changed stating that you could only play for the country you were actually born in, think what will happen to all these Island teams?? Catastrophic disaster it cripple the likes of Tonga and Samoa because you will find most island players are actually born in NZ
[/b][/quote]

Totally agree with this. Auckland is the biggest Polynesian city in the world and a lot of those players are eligible for Tonga, Fiji and Samoa due to parentage, which will soon be grand-parentage as the generations continue.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 21 2009, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Fiji made it to the quater finals of the Rugby World Cup, beating Wales in the process, so I assume you believe beating Wales is an easy task, which is acheivable without an International standard squad? And is dosn't seem to be clear to a number of people myself included that the above mentioned are all faster then Hosea Gear. I would rate Hosea in the top 5 fastest wingers in NZ and within the top five for the amount of skill from a winger. I would consider not digging yourself into a deeper hole, as your opinions are appreciated, however your way of going about it seem to offend every which way. Again telling people to go do some research makes you come off as an idiot, and I have yet to see any really valid points from you so far. Yes NZ can beat Samoa, Fiji and Tonga on a regular basis, but to claim beating those teams is easy, and they arn't to international standards, especially with Fiji rated the 9th best team in the world, makes you sound like a fool.[/b]
What is invalid about saying there are more NZ born players playing for Tonga and Samoa than there are Samoan or Tongan born players playing for NZ. How is that Stupid? I believe the only starting ABs not born in NZ Are Toeava Mils and Rockoko. I can't find any info on the Tonga or Samoa Websites, Hell even Australia only lists when not where. I can't find any NZ born players listed on Fiji's Website (though Takicabau who played for taranaki didn't have his place of birth listed). But anyway some of Samoa's best players (not necessarily their best but famous anyway) were born in NZ Michael Jones (played for ABs as well obviously) Simo Sititi (former Captain and No.8) I think Brian Lima Was Born in NZ (don't quote me on that) i know last year there were quiet a few but admittedly i can't name any.

that better?
 
Some players include:

Lome Fa'atau: Born Wellington, New Zealand (Played for Samoa)
Earl Va'a: Born Wellington, New Zealand (Played for Samoa)
Trevor Leota: Born Aukland, New Zealand (Played for Samoa)
Junior Poluleuligaga: Born Otahuhu, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Seilala Mapusua: Aukland, Newzealand (Plays for Samoa)
Gavin Williams: Aukland, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Sailosi Tagicakibau: Aukland, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Cencus Johnstone: Aukland, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Justin Va'a: Wainuiomata, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Joe Tekori: Aukland, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Jonny Faamatuainu: Aukland, New Zealand (Plays for Samoa)
Sateki Tuipulotu: Aukland, New Zealand (Played for Tonga)
Sililo Martens: Aukland, New Zealand (Plays for Tonga)
Nicky Little: Tokoroa, New Zealand (Played for Fiji) All I can think of born in NZ.

Players born in Pacific Islands that have played for NZ (reminder this is all of them, where as the names I listed were only those I could name/find out about.

Jerome Kaino: Tutuila, American Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2004-Present)
Frank Soloman: Pago Pago, American Samoa (Played for New Zealand 1931-1932)

Bernie Fraser: Lautoka, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 1979-1984)
Arthur Jennings: Lautoka, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 1967)
Tabai Matson: Nausori Highlands, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 1995-1996)
Josevata Rokocoko: Born Nadi, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 2003-Present)
Sitiveni Sivivatu: Born Suva, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 2005-Present)
Dave Soloman: Born Levuka, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 1935-1936)
Joeli Vidiri: Born Nausori Highlands, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 1998)
Ronald Williams: Born Suva, Fiji (Played for New Zealand 1988-1989)

Sosene Anesi: Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2005)
Olo Brown: Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 1990-1998)
Eroni Clarke: Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 1992-1998)
Jerry Collins: Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2001-2007)
Alama Ieremia: Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 1994-2000)
Casey Laulala: Born Moto'otua, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2004-2006)
Christopher Masoe: Born Savai’i, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2005-2007)
Mils Muliaina: Born Salelesi, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2003-Present)
John Schuster: Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 1987-1989)
John Schwalger Born Apia, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2007-2008)
Rodney So'oialo: Born Moto'otua, Samoa (Played for New Zealand 2002-Present)
Isaia Toeava: Born Moto'otua, Samoa (Played 2005-Present)
Inga Tuigamala: Born Falesiu, Samoa (Played 1989-1993)

Pita Alatini: Born Nuku'alofa, Tonga (Played for New Zealand 1999-2001)
Walter Batty: Born (can't find out), Tonga (Played for New Zealand 1928-1931)
Sione Lauaki: Born Ha'apai, Tonga (Played for New Zealand 2005-2008)
Isitolo Maka: Born Longoteme, Tonga (Played in New Zealand 1998)
Charles Riechelmann: Born Nuku'alofa, Tonga (Played in New Zealand 1997)
Saimone Taumoepeau Born Ha'apai, Tonga (Played in New Zealand 2004-2005)
Kupu Vanisi: Born Nuku'alofa, Tonga (Played in New Zealand 1999)

That is the list of every Pacific born New Zealander. Why did I do that...I just spent over an hour researching those people. Oh my god. Please, I am a sick person, with obviously too much spear time. Oh god help me. Who in there right mind will read this list...well, that was a waste of time, and very much off topic...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 21 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 21 2009, 08:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fiji made it to the quater finals of the Rugby World Cup, beating Wales in the process, so I assume you believe beating Wales is an easy task, which is acheivable without an International standard squad? And is dosn't seem to be clear to a number of people myself included that the above mentioned are all faster then Hosea Gear. I would rate Hosea in the top 5 fastest wingers in NZ and within the top five for the amount of skill from a winger. I would consider not digging yourself into a deeper hole, as your opinions are appreciated, however your way of going about it seem to offend every which way. Again telling people to go do some research makes you come off as an idiot, and I have yet to see any really valid points from you so far. Yes NZ can beat Samoa, Fiji and Tonga on a regular basis, but to claim beating those teams is easy, and they arn't to international standards, especially with Fiji rated the 9th best team in the world, makes you sound like a fool.[/b]
What is invalid about saying there are more NZ born players playing for Tonga and Samoa than there are Samoan or Tongan born players playing for NZ. How is that Stupid? I believe the only starting ABs not born in NZ Are Toeava Mils and Rockoko. I can't find any info on the Tonga or Samoa Websites, Hell even Australia only lists when not where. I can't find any NZ born players listed on Fiji's Website (though Takicabau who played for taranaki didn't have his place of birth listed). But anyway some of Samoa's best players (not necessarily their best but famous anyway) were born in NZ Michael Jones (played for ABs as well obviously) Simo Sititi (former Captain and No.8) I think Brian Lima Was Born in NZ (don't quote me on that) i know last year there were quiet a few but admittedly i can't name any.

that better?
[/b][/quote]
My lists list several All Blacks to prove you wrong, which include Jerome Kaino, Joe Rokocoko, Sitivini Sivivatu, Mils Muliena, Rodney So'oialo, Isaia Toeava and Sione Lauaki. There are also many players in the Super 14 born in Samoa, but elligable for selection in New Zealand. I must say Fiji is pretty Kiwi free, and so is Tonga to a lesser extent, but Samoa is all most half people born in New Zealand. You said Simo Sititi was born in New Zealand where he was actually born in Moto'otua, Samoa. Please get your facts right.
 

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