New Zealand v South Africa

[HarryPeters]

I think you have to remember, and this is what the commentators said after the game, this is the 3rd time this year that the Springboks have had to play 3 tests in a row. It would definitely have taken it out of them and this is the reason, in my opinion, why the All Blacks dominated that last 20 minutes.

They were tired, we were fired up.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

all blacks played ok, boks played better. didn't like how the game started but it eventually 'found legs' and proved to be an interesting game to watch. great job hamiltron! it was really good to see a big crowd and great pre match build up. i'd like to see more rugby in the tron.

i have a question for smart cooky and co... prior to du preez scoring the first try, muliaina went to pick the ball up and as he fumbled he was slung to the ground around the neck by a springbok. had he held posession of the ball, this was surely a dangerous tackle/ sin binning. why was play allowed to continue and du preez awarded the try?

 

[HarryPeters]

I saw this as well.

I think because he fumbled the ball, then got taken out the ref probably thought it was fair play.

Although at the time I thought it should have been pulled up.

 

[candybum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 13 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm sure I remember Carter nailing a penalty goal for a long way out just before halftime a few years ago in South Africa. I don't know how long it was, might have happened in 2006.

I don't think we were bad last night. You can't expect to win when your lineout is so shambolic but we really came in to the game into the last 20. South Africa deserve their win. We haven't been so good over the past four years that we have deserved to win the Tri Nations four times in a row. I personally don't think we should be worried. We can beat South Africa, things just haven't come together this year.[/b]

I agree. One thing is that the All Blacks drop too many passes/balls, even though they had a Aussie Rules coach come in to help with the high balls, it didn't really help.

As they build up momentum, drop ball. This is where SA are way more efficient. Not to say SA's handling was 100%, but its way more sound than the ABs.

 

[Haj]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (candybum @ Sep 13 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

As they build up momentum, drop ball. This is where SA are way more efficient. Not to say SA's handling was 100%, but its way more sound than the ABs.[/b]

Only because more often then not when SA put a high ball up at least one of the chasers is offside with the advantage of extra pressure on the defender.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (InsaneAsylum @ Sep 13 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

i have a question for smart cooky and co... prior to du preez scoring the first try, muliaina went to pick the ball up and as he fumbled he was slung to the ground around the neck by a springbok. had he held posession of the ball, this was surely a dangerous tackle/ sin binning. why was play allowed to continue and du preez awarded the try?[/b]

Referees consider a player who has fumbled the ball and is trying to recover it, to actually be in possession of the ball and liable to be tackled. If this were not the case, the receiver of a pass could deliberately juggle the ball and no-one would be allowed to tackle him.

Despite this, however, IMO there should have been a penalty to New Zealand slightly earlier than the scragging of Mils. Even though Sivivatu fumbled the ball catching the kick, he was shoved while he was still in the air....


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

LAW 10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(e) .......A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.......

(h) Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play.[/b]

Juggling the ball in the air is the same as having the ball in your possession in the air. Airborne players are supposed to be off limits, something that both Owens and Barnes missed even though it happened right in front of them.

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 13 2009, 01:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I actually think that if New Zealand play with a bit more risk, from early on, then we can run most teams off the field, like we did in the last 20min. The sad thing is is that we allow SA to play their game from early in the match, and SA is the master of their type of game. It is structured, defence orrientated and has the fortune to rely on boots that can kick from all most anywhere on a rugby field. And had the all blacks emphasised a running game, and got the Springboks retreating rather then their slow but sure advancement, we may have a better chance.[/b]

I'm not so sure. The thing is they tried running it from everywhere in Durban and got punished for it. Remember that this is the third set of three consecutive tests this year for the Boks. The third leg being the toughest as it involved 2 games in Aus followed by this one in NZ. The Springboks were clearly fatigued and this did contribute to the AB comeback, though I'm not saying the AB's didnt make a damned good effort.

ps. Just noticed Harry peters said pretty much the same thing above

 

[KZNSharksFan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 13 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Juggling the ball in the air is the same as having the ball in your possession in the air. Airborne players are supposed to be off limits, something that both Owens and Barnes missed even though it happened right in front of them.[/b]

Yes, when Rokocoko took out Habana in the air? Also, wasn't Read's shoulder charge on Habana that came after the whistle and whilst Habana didn't have the ball a yellow card? What do you reckon?

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 13 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (InsaneAsylum @ Sep 13 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i have a question for smart cooky and co... prior to du preez scoring the first try, muliaina went to pick the ball up and as he fumbled he was slung to the ground around the neck by a springbok. had he held posession of the ball, this was surely a dangerous tackle/ sin binning. why was play allowed to continue and du preez awarded the try?[/b]

Referees consider a player who has fumbled the ball and is trying to recover it, to actually be in possession of the ball and liable to be tackled. If this were not the case, the receiver of a pass could deliberately juggle the ball and no-one would be allowed to tackle him.

Despite this, however, IMO there should have been a penalty to New Zealand slightly earlier than the scragging of Mils. Even though Sivivatu fumbled the ball catching the kick, he was shoved while he was still in the air....


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

LAW 10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(e) .......A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.......

(h) Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play.[/b]

Juggling the ball in the air is the same as having the ball in your possession in the air. Airborne players are supposed to be off limits, something that both Owens and Barnes missed even though it happened right in front of them.
[/b][/quote]
Out of interest, to tackle a player off the ground I assume only applies if the player is receiving a ball eg line out and catching up and unders...but if for some reason a tackle is made while a player is off the ground, after the player has received the ball, can a penalty be rewarded? The other thing I though was compliete bs is that noone seems to have noted that Ma'a Nonu got spear tackled by either Francios Steyn or Jaque Fourie, after Nonu had passed the ball. I watched it and was wondering why a red card wasn't issued, as it looked very deliberate.

 

[candybum]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Sep 13 2009, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Out of interest, to tackle a player off the ground I assume only applies if the player is receiving a ball eg line out and catching up and unders...but if for some reason a tackle is made while a player is off the ground, after the player has received the ball, can a penalty be rewarded? The other thing I though was compliete bs is that noone seems to have noted that Ma'a Nonu got spear tackled by either Francios Steyn or Jaque Fourie, after Nonu had passed the ball. I watched it and was wondering why a red card wasn't issued, as it looked very deliberate.[/b]

Yes i noticed that, was about to say but you beat me to it. Thought it was pretty clear and was waiting for a penalty. But the whistle blew for a knock-on from the AB's. Worthy of a citing imo.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

fourie has been cited in relation to the incident. it was a pretty harsh tackle on nonu.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Fourie's been given a 4 week suspension.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Sep 13 2009, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yes, when Rokocoko took out Habana in the air? Also, wasn't Read's shoulder charge on Habana that came after the whistle and whilst Habana didn't have the ball a yellow card? What do you reckon?[/b]

Read had a brain explosion, and was damned lucky not to have been yellow carded. I think he should have been.

In the Rokocoko on Habana case, they were both competing for the ball, so I have no problem with it, but in the one on Sivivatu he was targeted, not the ball.

Originally posted by Nickdnz+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz)</div>

.....noone seems to have noted that Ma'a Nonu got spear tackled by either Francios Steyn or Jaque Fourie, after Nonu had passed the ball. I watched it and was wondering why a red card wasn't issued, as it looked very deliberate.[/b]

Yep, the team of three missed that. It was the AR responsibilty as it happened after the pass was made. Probably ball watching.

Recently, the iRB has issued a directive with regard to spear tackles. Referees are to consider a red card first and work backwards as follows

►Tackler lifts player AND tips horizontal or beyond AND drives or drops them head/shoulders first - PENALTY KICK + RED CARD
►Tackler lifts player AND tips horizontal or beyond AND lefts them fall flat - PENALTY KICK + YELLOW CARD
►Tackler lifts player AND tips horizontal or beyond AND lefts them down carefully - PENALTY KICK ONLY

<!--QuoteBegin-Nickdnz
Out of interest, to tackle a player off the ground I assume only applies if the player is receiving a ball eg line out and catching up and unders...but if for some reason a tackle is made while a player is off the ground, after the player has received the ball, can a penalty be rewarded?

This is only applied to players jumping to catch a kicked ball or to catch a ball thrown into a line-out. It does not apply to a player who might jump to receive a pass.

 

[smartcooky]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 13 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Fourie's been given a 4 week suspension.[/b]

No doubt there will be more whinging from Bok fans and another round of victimisation claims from PDV.

Justice "13" perhaps??

 

[TheBokke]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 14 2009, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 13 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fourie's been given a 4 week suspension.[/b]

No doubt there will be more whinging from Bok fans and another round of victimisation claims from PDV.

Justice "13" perhaps??
[/b][/quote]


No to busy celebrating :lol:

 

[bristol-iain]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Sep 13 2009, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 14 2009, 02:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ Sep 13 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fourie's been given a 4 week suspension.[/b]

No doubt there will be more whinging from Bok fans and another round of victimisation claims from PDV.

Justice "13" perhaps??
[/b][/quote]


No to busy celebrating :lol:
[/b][/quote]

15-Love

 

[kaino1990]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 13 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm sure I remember Carter nailing a penalty goal for a long way out just before halftime a few years ago in South Africa. I don't know how long it was, might have happened in 2006.[/b]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32j6iJjVUg4 about 1.25 in the video carter kicks a 60m kcik... just from that video im almost in tears how bad the all blacks are now .


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 13 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I don't think we were bad last night. You can't expect to win when your lineout is so shambolic but we really came in to the game into the last 20. South Africa deserve their win. We haven't been so good over the past four years that we have deserved to win the Tri Nations four times in a row. I personally don't think we should be worried. We can beat South Africa, things just haven't come together this year.[/b]

yeah totally agree man...i dont remember the Springboks being THAT dominant in the lineouts, i mean sure they were the best in the lineout department but never won 5 or more of our own lineouts like that is pathetic, you cant kick for touch if thats gonna happen and you certainly cant win a game. Timing and confidence have been a big factor in the ABs lineout this year, ross and co have been off timing along with hores throwing. But simple principles such as aggression and the breakdown and contact, urgency and competivness at the lineouts, breakdown are certainly parts of the ABs game that need to improve and reintroduce, the breakdown improved slightly as they started pileing into the breakdown. I just wish the ABs would pick their nuts off the ground and stop letting the springboks walk all over them, they are being embarrassed at home.

Again, not taking anything away from this great springbok side but the ABs have had a shocking run with injuries that really messed up their year with carter missing with the crusaders, (the bulls win in the s14 surely was the catalyst to a great springbok year) along with first choice 2nd row ali williams being injured pretty much the whole year, richard kahui and rudi wulf along with richie in patches brendon leonard,toeava and thomson (probably more but cant remember). Ahh well still in the building phase, just wish we could of beat you bokke at least once haha you gave us a rightful hiding!

PS: owens is one of the worst referees i have ever seen, but it was from another game, not this one i think SA have had the luck of the irish with some of the referees calls (1st/2nd test against AB, 1st test against AUS were some of the most bias refereeing i have ever witnessed). Like someone said on the forum, the only way for the springboks now is down!!

 

[cyRil]

I thought Nige had a really good game, and is obviously thought of highly.... For a Turk........ And a gay.

 

[Jethro]

Couple of questions for the kiwis.

1. Exactly what is our line out coach doing, two years down the track and it's still a weakness

2. Can someone sack our backline coach, actually holding onto the ball is a basic skill we seem to have forgotten about.

3. Anyone worked out a good excuse for why we lost the match, was going to blame the Ref but can't find enough evidence there.

 

[cyRil]

1. Absolute shambles. You threw it a foot not straight at one point and Matfield still stole it.

2. Isn't that Wayne Smith? You sack him, we'll have him! Nonu was the worst example yesterday, ruining overlaps, lacking vision and unable to recycle the ball.

3. The reason is South Africa are the best side in the world.