New Zealands sporting prowess

[darwin_23]

continues from Australia versus Wales rugby thread....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (darwin_23 @ Nov 5 2009, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Er, no, they are dreadful at Cricket, they are ok at that fake 20/20 sideshow, and so act like that is more important than test matches.[/b]

New Zealand are not the greatest cricket team - they are only on par with England (who by the way invented the sport). They are only ranked 7th in test (England ranked 5th), and 5th in ODI's (England ranked 7th), however they invariably make it into the semis of most major tournaments (Unlike say England). New Zealand doesn't do that bad considering the entire population is only about half that of the Greater London region! New Zealand is not good at all at 20/20 and don't give it anywhere as much consideration as most countries, so I think you might be a bit confused....

Other sports New Zealand excel at: softball (World Champs), Netball (2nd in world), Rugby League (World Champs), Rowing (probably the most successful country at world champs) - the only sport they don't really excel in Football (though they are on track to qualify for the world cup for the first time in 25 odd years). So nice try, but an epic fail by you

Anyways, I thought this thread was about Australia and Wales in rugby, my bad....
[/b][/quote]


Netball? Lol

Softball? Lol again

Rugby League (three countries play it)

Rowing? Ha I have a funny story about Rowing, At the Bejing Olympics the Kiwi's were Hyping up this old bloke Mahe Drysdale, saying all he had to do to win was show up (a bit like sarah walker in the bmx, who they said was the world champion, even though some english bird was actually the world champion lol) anyway Mahe realised he was losing so pretended he was sick, and layed on the floor crying.
What the kiwis did was 6 months later they invited the guy who beat Mahe to race him in new zealand, on mahes home course, and claimed that "this is for the REAL olympic gold medal and hyped it up for weeks (i swear im not making this up). So Mahe lost again, even worse than when he was "ill" and the kiwis pretended it never happened.

By the way mate, go to youtube and search for Danny Williams vs Kali Meehan, one of the greatest moments in the history of Kiwi Vs England sports.
[/b][/quote]

I'm sorry you haven't really made any remotely valid points - what sports in particular are you suggesting that New Zealand are hopeless at? I've listed a number that they excel in and you are yet to list a single sport that they are below par in!

So Drysdale didn't win the Gold because he was ill - big deal. He still managed a bronze (how did the English rowers Alan Campbell go in this event by the way?). He won the World Champs again this year (in a world record time). Just because Kiwi's don't win every event that they predicted to win doesn't make them hopeless at all sports as you seem to think!

btw Kali Meehan is very much an Australian (though he did spend some time growing up in New Zealand), though and the relevance of an average British boxer knocking out a average boxer (whether Australian or New Zealand) is beyond me.

 

[Infern0]

The Mahe thing is relevant though, because it's a complete and utter disgrace to world sport.

The problem with the Kiwi's (in a sports sense, i have no problem with you in any other respect and I love your country) Is that although they are pretty good at sport for their population, they have the arrogance of a country 10 times the size, you take sport way too seriously, and when you get verbally sonned for your arrogance you play the small population card.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The Mahe thing is relevant though, because it's a complete and utter disgrace to world sport.

The problem with the Kiwi's (in a sports sense, i have no problem with you in any other respect and I love your country) Is that although they are pretty good at sport for their population, they have the arrogance of a country 10 times the size, you take sport way too seriously, and when you get verbally sonned for your arrogance you play the small population card.[/b]

Why is the Mahe thing a complete and utter disgrace to world sport? A rower (who happened to be the world champ) got sick and didn't perform to his best, I don't know what wrong with this....

So now we are 'pretty good at sport for our population', rather than (and I quote) 'an epic fail in every other sport in the world' - so you are changing what you are saying completely?!?!. Personally I have not seen a lot of arrogance attached to New Zealand sports, but I can't see how the rest of the world perceives New Zealand. New Zealand sportsmen and sportswomen are traditionally quite humble. New Zealand punches above its weight in nearly all sports, but like any country sometimes gets thrashed. Do I detect a hint of Jealousy at New Zealand's sporting achievements?

 

[Juggernaut]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 5 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The only country I really Hate is New Zealand, sadly they are good at rugby, but I get to laugh at them epic fail in every other sport in the world.[/b]

Please give a list...

 

[Juan VdS]

SOME Kiwis are arrogant, indeed. I came across many of them during the RWC in France. We often talked about sports in general, and I noticed how SOME of them would react defensively if I raised a rather blatant point (for example: that NZ was not good at football / soccer). Then again, generalizations will lead us nowhere. I am sure most Kiwis are nice and reasonable people.

Having a small population does indeed diminish the possibilities of a nation to excel in a particular sport; but it's not a crucial factor in my personal opinion. I often associate it with socio-cultural factors that help or hinder the sport from flourishing. We can't expect NZ to all of a sudden excel at football or basketball... just like we can't expect Argentina to totally excel at Rugby.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Nov 6 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

SOME Kiwis are arrogant, indeed. I came across many of them during the RWC in France. We often talked about sports in general, and I noticed how SOME of them would react defensively if I raised a rather blatant point (for example: that NZ was not good at football / soccer). Then again, generalizations will lead us nowhere. I am sure most Kiwis are nice and reasonable people.

Having a small population does indeed diminish the possibilities of a nation to excel in a particular sport; but it's not a crucial factor in my personal opinion. I often associate it with socio-cultural factors that help or hinder the sport from flourishing. We can't expect NZ to all of a sudden excel at football or basketball... just like we can't expect Argentina to totally excel at Rugby.[/b]

I certainly agree that some Kiwi's are arrogant, though I'd be surprised Kiwi's are more arrogant than people from other countries (though that could be the arrogant kiwi in me talking B) ). Sociocultural factors do indeed help/hinder a particular sport flourishing, however with a very limited population the possibility of flourishing in numerous sports is greatly diminished - I'm sure New Zealand would still have a good rugby team if it was only 1/10th its size, but I doubt they would be competitive in many other sports.

 

[Infern0]

Yeah i'm not having a go at every Kiwi, but the words Kiwi and Humble should never be in the same sentence without the words "are not".

By the way i USED to have no opinion on Kiwi Sports fans until i spent a year in New Zealand (lovely country). I made many Kiwi friends but man if you dared say anything negative about Kiwi sports the **** hit the fan.

EVERY time a New Zealand sports team loses there is an excuse, the Ref was bent, they were "ill", they had been poisoned, the opponents cheated, the opponents were not playing in the "spirit of the game"

It's like rugby, When England in 03 beat them using kicking England were abused, and accused of playing "bad rugby". What they are saying is that you must play in a fashion that gives New Zealand the advantage.

They also take the **** out of England and say Johnny Wilkinson is overrated and a one hit wonder, and Dan Carter is much better! Well how many world cup finals has Carter been in?

Basically the Kiwi sports mentality is to act superior, take the ****, and then if they lose sulk, say its because the opposition cheated and hide behind the small population card.

 

[Infern0]

Oh, and also they were all crying when England got the 2015 RWC, saying Twickenham is a "dungheap" and that there is no atmosphere and the facilities in england are crap.

Englands facilities make New Zealands look like a third world country by comparrison, i'm not saying your stadiums are crap, but dont say they are better than Englands when that clearly is bullshit.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah i'm not having a go at every Kiwi, but the words Kiwi and Humble should never be in the same sentence without the words "are not".[/b]

You managed to completely contradict yourself - in a single sentence!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

EVERY time a New Zealand sports team loses there is an excuse, the Ref was bent, they were "ill", they had been poisoned, the opponents cheated, the opponents were not playing in the "spirit of the game"[/b]

Yes, and the English would never complain if they lose a match. They aren't know around the world as 'whinging poms'.. oh wait.....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

They also take the **** out of England and say Johnny Wilkinson is overrated and a one hit wonder, and Dan Carter is much better! Well how many world cup finals has Carter been in?[/b]

If you think Wilkinson is currently a better player than Carter I question your sanity.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Basically the Kiwi sports mentality is to act superior, take the ****, and then if they lose sulk, say its because the opposition cheated and hide behind the small population card.[/b]

So you are saying they are the same as the English(except for the population thing). :bravo:

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

They also take the **** out of England and say Johnny Wilkinson is overrated and a one hit wonder, and Dan Carter is much better! Well how many world cup finals has Carter been in?[/b]

And Ben Cohen has won more World Cups than Jonah Lomu....

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Oh, and also they were all crying when England got the 2015 RWC, saying Twickenham is a "dungheap" and that there is no atmosphere and the facilities in england are crap.

Englands facilities make New Zealands look like a third world country by comparrison, i'm not saying your stadiums are crap, but dont say they are better than Englands when that clearly is bullshit.[/b]

You have a terrible habit of generalizing. I have never heard anyone in NZ complain that the English got the 2015 RWC - I have no idea who your are talking too, but their opinions certainly does not reflect the opinion of the rugby public of New Zealand. Are you sure you aren't confusing us with Australians?. I think England has some wonderful rugby stadiums, I personally would have thought they were far superior to the New Zealand stadiums (though we are currently building more).

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Nov 6 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 12:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They also take the **** out of England and say Johnny Wilkinson is overrated and a one hit wonder, and Dan Carter is much better! Well how many world cup finals has Carter been in?[/b]

And Ben Cohen has won more World Cups than Jonah Lomu....
[/b][/quote]
....and Mike Tindell has won more world cups than Brian O'Driscoll.....

 

[Juan VdS]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

They also take the **** out of England and say Johnny Wilkinson is overrated and a one hit wonder, and Dan Carter is much better! Well how many world cup finals has Carter been in?[/b]

Wilkinson is a good player, and is in great form right now... but Carter is LIGHT YEARS ahead of him.

The logic that states a certain player is not good because he hasn't won a World Cup is downright erratic and isn't worth refuting. If we abided by that logic then players like Shane Williams, Brian O'Driscoll, Parisse, McCaw, Collins, Hayman, Lomu, Pichot, Hernandez, Porta, Roncero, Giteau, Smith and such would suck. :huh:

 

[danger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Nov 6 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

SOME Kiwis are arrogant, indeed. I came across many of them during the RWC in France. We often talked about sports in general, and I noticed how SOME of them would react defensively if I raised a rather blatant point (for example: that NZ was not good at football / soccer). Then again, generalizations will lead us nowhere. I am sure most Kiwis are nice and reasonable people.

Having a small population does indeed diminish the possibilities of a nation to excel in a particular sport; but it's not a crucial factor in my personal opinion. I often associate it with socio-cultural factors that help or hinder the sport from flourishing. We can't expect NZ to all of a sudden excel at football or basketball... just like we can't expect Argentina to totally excel at Rugby.[/b]

I know i don't speak for everyone here, but personally and on behalf of my circle of friends, i just cant stand the sport. I always find it interesting when people from football mad nations try to stick the "you aren't good at the beautiful game" dagger in. I feel no need to get defensive because the sport really doesn't matter to me.

One of my good mates, a played instead of rugby (he copped alot of **** for that), he made the NZ under 17 team to play at the world cup in Korea leading me to watch my first full game of poofball. I could see there was alot of skill involved, but the dives and the fact that you could watch a whole game with a single goal being scored? come ooon. boooring.

It really sums up why NZs attitude to football and why the sport wont improve when you consider that in our school, if a guy made the NZ under 17 rugby team, there would be a presentation in assembly, the whole school would be buzzing and he would be featured in the paper etc.

This guy was playing against the likes of Argentina and England, against guys that had already signed multimillion dollar contracts, i remember him saying he came up against twins from Brazil that had signed with Man U. Anyway, he had no presentation in assembly, noone in the school besides his mates that he personally told even knew where he was. Even after he had reached this level people still gave him **** about choosing football over rugby.

-Oh and about basketball, we are getting better. There was that one time the NZ basketball community cling to where we finished 4th ahead of Spain and the U.S in 2002.

The new generation of players is awesome too. Theres this guy from Wellington, Dion Prewster. half african american half islander, absolute freak, looks like a cross between Gilbert Arenas and Joe Rokocoko. Hes a 6'5 point guard and been dunking regulation hoops since he was 11. I came up against him when he was 16 and he was 360 windmilling. Hes in the U.S somewhere at the moment, i really wouldnt be too suprised to see him in the NBA in the next few years.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 5 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The only country I really Hate is New Zealand, sadly they are good at rugby, but I get to laugh at them epic fail in every other sport in the world.[/b]

Yeah, well my dad could beat up your dad. And i have a much larger penis than you so there.

 

[Juan VdS]

Yeah, I was just putting across an example. The situation I described was rather ironic, though. This Kiwi brought up the topic by mentioning that England hates Argentina for what <strike>the retarded snorter</strike> Maradona did in 1986. So we started to discuss football in general, until he said: "If our population was bigger we would win over many football powerhouses". Dumb as heck remark. I told him that Argentina was far superior in the football world, but he insisted. Then again, I am sure most Kiwis would not say such a thing. On the other hand, there are plenty of Argentines that think Los Pumas are the best team on the planet just because of their superb performance in the last RWC. Dumb as heck as well, I know. Some people blabber on things they know nothing about. :mellow:

No need to explain why you don't like the sport. I like football, but only when I play it with my friends in a friendly atmosphere. I wholeheartedly dislike international football though. It's got no respect, no comradeship, no altruism. It's all about seeking personal glory (check my forum signature).

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (danger @ Nov 6 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I know i don't speak for everyone here, but personally and on behalf of my circle of friends, i just cant stand the sport. I always find it interesting when people from football mad nations try to stick the "you aren't good at the beautiful game" dagger in. I feel no need to get defensive because the sport really doesn't matter to me.

One of my good mates, a played instead of rugby (he copped alot of **** for that), he made the NZ under 17 team to play at the world cup in Korea leading me to watch my first full game of poofball. I could see there was alot of skill involved, but the dives and the fact that you could watch a whole game with a single goal being scored? come ooon. boooring.

It really sums up why NZs attitude to football and why the sport wont improve when you consider that in our school, if a guy made the NZ under 17 rugby team, there would be a presentation in assembly, the whole school would be buzzing and he would be featured in the paper etc.

This guy was playing against the likes of Argentina and England, against guys that had already signed multimillion dollar contracts, i remember him saying he came up against twins from Brazil that had signed with Man U. Anyway, he had no presentation in assembly, noone in the school besides his mates that he personally told even knew where he was. Even after he had reached this level people still gave him **** about choosing football over rugby.[/b]

Well said - I personally couldn't care less if anyone said we are hopeless at football, because its the truth (though as I said before we are on the verge of qualifying for the World Cup for the first time in 25 years - a big achievement for us!). The people I talk to are generally rugby people who couldn't care less about football - I'm sure some football people may be offended if you stated that the All Whites were hopeless.

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Nov 6 2009, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah, I was just putting across an example. The situation I described was rather ironic, though. This Kiwi brought up the topic by mentioning that England hates Argentina for what <strike>the retarded snorter</strike> Maradona did in 1986. So we started to discuss football in general, until he said: "If our population was bigger we would win over many football powerhouses". Dumb as heck remark. I told him that Argentina was far superior in the football world, but he insisted. Then again, I am sure most Kiwis would not say such a thing. On the other hand, there are plenty of Argentines that think Los Pumas are the best team on the planet just because of their superb performance in the last RWC. Dumb as heck as well, I know. Some people blabber on things they know nothing about. :mellow:

No need to explain why you don't like the sport. I like football, but only when I play it with my friends in a friendly atmosphere. I wholeheartedly dislike international football though. It's got no respect, no comradeship, no altruism. It's all about seeking personal glory (check my forum signature).[/b]

Excellent post - I agree with those sentiments 100%. :bravo:

 

[jawmalawm24]

This thread sux it's just creating division between everybody, in the famous words of Dr Martin Luther Kings Junior "why can't we all just get along".

Who are considered to be the best football country in the world? I know crap all about it but I just assumed it was Brazil or Argentina. I don't wanna know who won the last Football World Cup I wanna know who's the best.

 

[Infern0]

By the way, I hope no-one is getting offended, its a heated debate but no need to take it too seriously, i just love a good argument at times.

I realise currently Carter is better than Wikinson, but All time, and in terms of achivements Wilkinson clearly is better, just think of what he achieved while having the handicap of playing for England!

 

[darwin_23]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jawmalawm24 @ Nov 6 2009, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Who are considered to be the best football country in the world? I know crap all about it but I just assumed it was Brazil or Argentina. I don't wanna know who won the last Football World Cup I wanna know who's the best.[/b]

Italy beat France in the last World Cup final if memory serves me correct. Brazil, Argentina and a host of European countries (Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Netherlands) would be considered the best in the world. Incidentally New Zealand is ranked 83rd, in between El Salvador and Mozambique.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Infern0 @ Nov 6 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

By the way, I hope no-one is getting offended, its a heated debate but no need to take it too seriously, i just love a good argument at times.[/b]

Oh don't be like that - it takes all the fun out of arguing if no-one is getting offended I'm finding this topic quite entertaining - I think we've had more posts on this topic over the last couple of hours than in all the other topics combined! btw We are still waiting for the list of sports that New Zealand epically fail at!