North vs South

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by springbok world champs, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. Watching some of the games last weekend i cant help but think that the Super 14 is much more intense than there Europe counter parts. The games on our side are tougher and faster .The skill the SAFAS and the KIWIS display is just so much better you cant even compare

    I would surely like to see the super 14 champs against the Heineken Champs 2 games 1 on each others home ground.i dont think you will need 3 as the super 14 side will hammer them

    Any opinions
     
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  3. Top idea if the Heineken survives the current crisis.
     
  4. Wellycane

    Wellycane Guest

    I think we shouldn't compare both competiotions at all. The Heiniken Cup which I believe is really a provincial 'club' competition which makes it relevent to the Air New Zealand Cup competition or the Currie Cup in South Africa or the new Australian national competition....urghhh don't know the name. But then the Super 14 franchises are made up from their country's national competition, combining provincial clubs that form stronger and better teams. eg. Hurricanes consists provincial sides such as Wellington, Taranaki, Hawks Bay, Manawatu etc.
     
  5. Dumbo

    Dumbo Guest

    If Southern Players keep doing the exodus thing up North then the Super 14 might start looking a bit shallow... one thing though, f&*k there might be a spot for me, time to wipe the dust off the old boots!

    And give up the fags and drink... on second thoughts...
     
  6. Speculating over this year's winners, let's take Leicester vs Crusaders as an example.

    One is a team based around one town, the other an entire region. In theory the Crusaders should win, they should in theory be the bigger team in every aspect.

    The ideal situation would be for the home team to choose the weather conditions the match is played in. I think Leicester would run the Crusaders very close in dry conditions, but that the Kiwi's would struggle to match to Leicester pack in the tight at a muddy and cold Welford Road.

    The opening post seems to write off any NH side, which is quite frankly ridiculous.
     
  7. eoino

    eoino Guest

    I wouldnt put it completly out of porportion. If I had to chose one HEC side to play any Super14, it would defenitly be Munster. Just something strange about that team, they could beat anyone.. weirdos.
     
  8. Munster are classic bottler's in one off big matches. Look how many times they have reached the knockout stages of the HEC and then compare in to how many times they have won. Leicester are formidable at the moment, there are few teams that can stand up to them.
     
  9. The TRUTH

    The TRUTH Guest

    The Crusaders are the kings of **** weather rugby!
     
  10. loratadine

    loratadine Guest

    id love to see the scarlets at there free flowing best against the crusaders.
     
  11. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    No no, the ANZ Cup and the CC are National competitions and not international competitions like the HEC.

    Also, you forget that half of the teams in the HEC (from Ireland, Scotland and Wales) are drawn up along provincial (al la Super 14) lines too.

    Yes you can't compare the Super 14 to the HEC clubs, but you also can't compare the CC or the ANZC to the HEC either.

    However, for the purpose of argument, I shall contradict myself and compare the Super 14 to the HEC clubs.

    As for which teams are better, obviously the Super 14 teams. Even if the entire Crusaders squad to a man upped sticks and moved to Saracens, and then not only that clone the worlds greatest rugby players in the last 100 years, we'd still somehow cock it up. The Super 14 just has that much more clinical edge!

    The Scarlets just want to fanny about with lateral passing and 100m dashes to actually bother with winning, the likes of the Crusaders and the Sharks just want to CRUSH KILL AND DESTROY.

    But then again, in the banter stakes, the HEC clubs will always have the edge, mainly because some (Munster, Leicester, Ospreys) have defeated SH International teams in their lifetime. In fact, in the bragging stakes, the HEC would wing it because their collective history and pride would outstrip the phoney, manufactured Super 14 'franchises' by a huge rate.

    Lets leave it for fifty years and let the Super 14 franchises mature, let them play some touring International sides and then they'll be able to stand shoulder to shoulder, not just on results, but on history and culture too.

    Final conclusions: HEC clubs can brag about former glories, but thats about it. S14 > HEC Clubs.
     
  12. The TRUTH

    The TRUTH Guest

    Trust me mate, you wouldn't.
     
  13. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Trust me mate, you wouldn't.
    [/b][/quote]

    I would. They always say Welsh Lamb is best served flame grilled :lol:
     
  14. Wellycane

    Wellycane Guest

    No no, the ANZ Cup and the CC are National competitions and not international competitions like the HEC.

    Also, you forget that half of the teams in the HEC (from Ireland, Scotland and Wales) are drawn up along provincial (al la Super 14) lines too.

    Yes you can't compare the Super 14 to the HEC clubs, but you also can't compare the CC or the ANZC to the HEC either.

    However, for the purpose of argument, I shall contradict myself and compare the Super 14 to the HEC clubs.

    As for which teams are better, obviously the Super 14 teams. Even if the entire Crusaders squad to a man upped sticks and moved to Saracens, and then not only that clone the worlds greatest rugby players in the last 100 years, we'd still somehow cock it up. The Super 14 just has that much more clinical edge!

    The Scarlets just want to fanny about with lateral passing and 100m dashes to actually bother with winning, the likes of the Crusaders and the Sharks just want to CRUSH KILL AND DESTROY.

    But then again, in the banter stakes, the HEC clubs will always have the edge, mainly because some (Munster, Leicester, Ospreys) have defeated SH International teams in their lifetime. In fact, in the bragging stakes, the HEC would wing it because their collective history and pride would outstrip the phoney, manufactured Super 14 'franchises' by a huge rate.

    Lets leave it for fifty years and let the Super 14 franchises mature, let them play some touring International sides and then they'll be able to stand shoulder to shoulder, not just on results, but on history and culture too.

    Final conclusions: HEC clubs can brag about former glories, but thats about it. S14 > HEC Clubs.
    [/b][/quote]

    What I meant was where the Super 14 teams are based in. eg Crusaders, Christchurch or Blues, Auckland etc. which gives more options of player selections from it's provicial sides in the ANZC. These are main 'cities' where in the HC, there are some team locations based as 'provincial'. But yes I agree that the HC is an international comp. and ANZC and CC are national.
     
  15. Rugby_Cymru

    Rugby_Cymru Guest

    To be honest, i think a S14 team could beat a HEC team on most given days.
    But that's not really the point.

    The point is HEC is far more entertaining, because it's international but mainly becuase it's a tournament...not a league.

    IMO and purely for those reasons: HEC>S14
     
  16. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Personally, the HEC should be a driver for linking the Guinness Premiership with the ML and the French and Italian leagues. Not merging but linking, leave the league structures untouched, leave the teams alone and create a federation of leagues.

    Ditch the domestic cups for each league and slightly alter the status of the HEC as a European Cup to a European Playoff championship. Set a quota of four slots in each league for qualification, synchronise the seasons so that they all end at exactly the same point and then start the playoffs and then let the playoffs begin!

    True, that would mean that not all Irish and Welsh teams would get in, it could mean that all four Irish teams but no Welsh or Scottish teams getting in. Tough. Thats the league you wanted, live with the consequences. Scotland can only get one team into the HEC but you don't see them complaining, life is a bitch, then the EU funding runs out and you die.

    Essentially like the NHL and the playoffs there. Sod regionalism or dumping Guinness Premiership clubs down to the First Division, its too complicated and will destroy trust between fans and Club let alone fans and Union.

    Its far easier and simpler to just create a federation of leagues, leave those leagues unchanged and make the HEC a yearly playoff tournament. Now that would make Europe even more exciting.
     
  17. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Guest

    Ah! last time I checked, the Super 14 is a tournament that involves teams from 3 countries.....so that makes it International.

    Conclusion: Super 14 IS an International tournament so your argument is null and void. :p
     
  18. Rugby_Cymru

    Rugby_Cymru Guest

    :lol: Well pointed out.
    I concede it is international.
    But i still see it as a league.
     
  19. shtove

    shtove Guest

    The only outstanding team is the Crusaders. Blues and Sharks would mix it up with Leicester and Wasps.

    Sod this: bring on the RWC.
     
  20. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    You're joking, right?
     
  21. shtove

    shtove Guest

    Munster in Thomond, no joke.

    Elsewhere, lambs to the slaughter.
     
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