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Note to heineke meyer.

AAndre

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Blue Bulls
Look at the video of yesterdays final. Improve on what the All Blacks did for 80 minutes and we can beat them and bring the cup home. We realise that you have the worst job on earth and commiserate with you. To the All Blacks, well done guys. Ritchie and the retirees, well miss you. Go well and in peace.
 
Heyneke needs to revert back to the way the Boks played against the All Blacks and Australia the last year or two. That made them a lot of friends.
 
First off, maybe the fans should relax. Thankfully, I see the comment pages on IOL news and News 24 are closed forever. If the politicians can be kept at bay, things can also become a bit easier. How do you motivate a team, about to board for the RWC with an interdict hanging around your neck? All in all, I think we did quite well, after the wake-up call against Japan. Now that was unnecessary and could only have added to the pressure. On their return, they have to face an interdict by some tin-pot party, quotas in the team and the usual tripe. As I wrote, the worst job in the world. Maybe it's best that we get a new coach. I read between the lines, that Alistair from Western Province, (now in Japan) is frothing at the mouth. God help us!
 
There's a rumour going around that Heyneke Meyer signed an extended contract of 4 more years before the start of this world cup.

Look, I might get a bit defensive when it comes the HM, because I like him as a person and as a coach. But here is my thoughts on the next 4 years for the Springbok Coaching staff.

Heyneke Meyer isn't perfect, and made a few mistakes, but he also did a lot of good things. I say we should utilise this to our advantage and build on that, just like he did with the Bulls who was the wooden spooners and went on to win the trophy 2 years in a row.

I think HM should get some new assistant coaches. Get someone from New Zealand who can make our backline more of a weapon.

I'm happy with Pieter de Villiers and what he has done so far with our scrums, and I think he should stay on. I don't think Richie Gray has done anything bad with the forwards and the breakdown area, but I do feel that there is still an area for improvement.

Lastly our defensive co-ordinator. This is an area which at times works great, and then other times show gaping holes. I just don't know whether it's the coaching or the Mindset of the players.

We had a lot of youngsters at this world cup, in key positions, and I think all of them showed their class, which is something I think we have to applaud the coaches for. They and the senior players did a fantastic job at giving the youngsters guidance.

- - - Updated - - -

There's a rumour going around that Heyneke Meyer signed an extended contract of 4 more years before the start of this world cup.

Look, I might get a bit defensive when it comes the HM, because I like him as a person and as a coach. But here is my thoughts on the next 4 years for the Springbok Coaching staff.

Heyneke Meyer isn't perfect, and made a few mistakes, but he also did a lot of good things. I say we should utilise this to our advantage and build on that, just like he did with the Bulls who was the wooden spooners and went on to win the trophy 2 years in a row.

I think HM should get some new assistant coaches. Get someone from New Zealand who can make our backline more of a weapon.

I'm happy with Pieter de Villiers and what he has done so far with our scrums, and I think he should stay on. I don't think Richie Gray has done anything bad with the forwards and the breakdown area, but I do feel that there is still an area for improvement.

Lastly our defensive co-ordinator. This is an area which at times works great, and then other times show gaping holes. I just don't know whether it's the coaching or the Mindset of the players.

We had a lot of youngsters at this world cup, in key positions, and I think all of them showed their class, which is something I think we have to applaud the coaches for. They and the senior players did a fantastic job at giving the youngsters guidance.
 
There are too many blue bulls in the coaching setup. Ideas get stale when you employ people from the same union. And it's just plain madness, to employ people from the same province, especially in this professional era.

Rassie, Brendan Venter need to be in the coaching setup. Loubscher and Van Graan need to go. Jacques Nienaber needs to be defensive coach. Eddie Jones as assistant would be good.
 
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so how are we looking player-wise for each position going forward. with some of the old guard leaving JdV, Burger, Habana, FdP, Matfield etc and possibly the likes of du Plessis bros, Alberts and Ruan joining them. would be interesting if someone with more local knowledge could do a 1-15 with all the candidates for each position.

with guys like de Allende and Kriel (also hoping Senatla could be Habana's long term replacement but he's still relatively untested) we could be in for exciting times ahead but i can't help but think our games needs to evolve to allow us to compete with the best.

our forwards can compete with anyone and give the team a great platform to build on but the backline is starved of the ball too often then we expect wonders from them when they do eventually get it.

dare i say it but could possibly do with some kiwi coaches working with the provinces and the boks, those guys seem to know the game inside out.
 
The South African's (and Heyneke) looked like dinosaurs from another era at this tournament. They remain hard and committed, but that's not enough any longer. The game has moved on. I'm not sure they can move forward under Heyneke. Joel Stransky certainly doesn't think they can.
 
(also hoping Senatla could be Habana's long term replacement but he's still relatively untested)
He's got pace, and i enjoyed watching him play for the blitzbokke, not so much for WP though. He needs time in SR first, but as good a candidate as any.

I saw an article saying that certain bookies are tipping Plumtree to take over if Heyneke is out. Not sure i'd like that. Assistant sure but not head? He did well with the sharks, and since John Smit fired him they have suffered. Interesting times.
 
I really feel sorry for HM and his fellow coaches. Being the coach of a national side is hard enough without the additional burden of being subject to the political machinations of a corrupt government who stands over them with a whip to ensure they select a "racially acceptable" team. It must be immensely frustrating to see good players they cannot select because they have to select a not so good player of colour to me et some insane racial quota, and worse yet, to see those players head overseas and start turning out for other countries because they cannot get a look in their own country due to the colour of their skin.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I always thought that the anti-apartheid campaigns of the 1980s and 90s had the demand for "merit based selection" as the cornerstone of their philosophy!
 
I really feel sorry for HM and his fellow coaches. Being the coach of a national side is hard enough without the additional burden of being subject to the political machinations of a corrupt government who stands over them with a whip to ensure they select a "racially acceptable" team. It must be immensely frustrating to see good players they cannot select because they have to select a not so good player of colour to me et some insane racial quota, and worse yet, to see those players head overseas and start turning out for other countries because they cannot get a look in their own country due to the colour of their skin.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I always thought that the anti-apartheid campaigns of the 1980s and 90s had the demand for "merit based selection" as the cornerstone of their philosophy!

You are not mistaken at all, it's just that this current regime of the ANC are using "Reverse-Apartheid". Some of them even openly say "It can't be racism when you are black". I actually think that the other rugby nations should join forces and assist us in our current dilemma. If we don't get help from the outside, these threats and transformation ideas will always linger and prevent us from ever reaching our full potential as a test playing nation.
 
The South African's (and Heyneke) looked like dinosaurs from another era at this tournament. They remain hard and committed, but that's not enough any longer. The game has moved on. I'm not sure they can move forward under Heyneke. Joel Stransky certainly doesn't think they can.

Joel WHO?Please don't base your opinion of one of the top teams in the world on THAT guy's feelings!
 
so how are we looking player-wise for each position going forward. with some of the old guard leaving JdV, Burger, Habana, FdP, Matfield etc and possibly the likes of du Plessis bros, Alberts and Ruan joining them. would be interesting if someone with more local knowledge could do a 1-15 with all the candidates for each position.

with guys like de Allende and Kriel (also hoping Senatla could be Habana's long term replacement but he's still relatively untested) we could be in for exciting times ahead but i can't help but think our games needs to evolve to allow us to compete with the best.

our forwards can compete with anyone and give the team a great platform to build on but the backline is starved of the ball too often then we expect wonders from them when they do eventually get it.

dare i say it but could possibly do with some kiwi coaches working with the provinces and the boks, those guys seem to know the game inside out.

Its almost a pointless excersize though because of the 50% race quota. Like Smartcooky stated above I certainly am glad I don't have to balance race quotas going forward in my fantasy XVs but its a (backroom) reality for Meyer most of his critics tend to forget and I include myself. The worst of it IMO is that the black players that do make it will have that questionmark over their heads of "are they there on merit or because of special treatment?". Anyway, in my view:

LOOSEHEAD:
Inside track:
Tendai Mtawarira - staying on at the Sharks I believe, is black and experienced if not quite our current form loosehead
Trevor Nyakane - is black and there on merit IMO
Steven Kitshoff - our form loosehead and out of selection due to injury and probably quotas, moving to France next year before getting his cap(s) is probably hurting his chances
Maybe:
Heinke van der Merwe -
Youngster who could step up:
Thomas du Toit -
Olli Kebble -

HOOKER
Inside track:
Adriaan Strauss -
Bismarck du Plessis - I can see him staying around the Bok fold despite being in France by dit of the fact that our other options will be needing time and experience at SR leve first and Brits and Burden are also old and in Europe.
Maybe:
Scarra Ntubeni - has been groomed for a spot and is probably still in contention but has failed IMO to get enough consistency in his core duties to warrant selection for the Stormers nevermind the Bokke.
Robbie Coetzee
Armand van der Merwe
Youngster who could step up:
Malcolm Marx
Mike Willemse

TIGHTHEAD PROP
Inside track:
Frans Malherbe -
Jannie du Plessis -
Vincent Koch - I can see him getting another chance. He got owned by streetwise Ayerza in his test debut but 1) who wouldn't and 2) we won't get Poite and his incompetence at scrum time every test.
Coenie Oosthuizen - sad but true.
Marcel van der Merwe -
Maybe:
Julian Redelinghuys -
Youngster who could step up:
Thomas du Toit - seeing as the Sharks are looking to switch him over though why I wouldn't know seeing as he is a good loose head as is despite his young age.

LOCKS
Inside track:
Eben Etzebeth -
Lood de Jager -
Maybe:
Pieter-Steph du Toit - probably unfair to judge the youngster right back from injury and thrown into the thick of things. I'll back him to take that bench spot.
Oupa Mohoje -
Juandre Kruger -
Flip van der Merwe -
Francois van der Merwe -
Youngster who could step up:
Marvin Orie
Paul Willemse - in Europe though
Jandre Marais - also in France
Ruan Botha - will he get time behind Etzebeth and PSdT at the Stormers?
Jean Kleyn - also behind in the pecking order at the Stormers but has shown some good grunt
Stephan Lewies - will he regain form coming back from injury?
Franco Mostert
Jacques du Plessis - also heading to France

LOOSIES
Inside track:
Duane Vermeulen - because we can't have rookies in every position and he is still going very well.
Francois Louw -
Marcell Coetzee -
(I don't see Brussow, Burger or Alberts carrying on much longer really mostly due to age and not being shoe-ins)
Maybe:
Siya Kolisi -
Jaco Kriel - has already done more than enough to warrant starting ahead of Louw, Coetzee and Brussow IMO
Warren Whiteley -
Arno Botha -
Nizaam Carr -
Youngster who could step up:
Where do I start.. TBH I don't think anyone below these above will get a look in soon; we are just too well stocked here.


... I'll update with my reasons when I get the time. Also still need to do the backs..
 
As a South African and Bok fan, here is my point of view, I know it's cynical, but it is honest. Enforced quotas are definitely in the future. It's going to be a heck of a fight to retain the "bok" emblem. The "powers that be", will not countenance a coach from abroad. After 05 December, the entire support group to the RWC team will be unemployed. The board of SARU will change dramatically. Demographics have nothing to do with it. Our national soccer team is not "demographically" correct. If you take a team like Namibia, with only 1200 registered rugby players in the entire country and looking at the makeup of their team, where does that leave the argument? (Hats off to them! It's a big country!) Demographically "correct" people, do not play rugby. However, the whole stink, is just another way by our brothers to screw the "incorrect", out of sheer spite and to be able to put up a hand, saying, "I drilled them good hey?" All and everything for political gain. Eventually, what is now a beloved sport, will become too much of a burden and we will lose interest. Our rugby is headed the same way as our police force, army, air force, navy, department of health, education. I can make a very long list, but you get the idea.
 
As a South African and Bok fan, here is my point of view, I know it's cynical, but it is honest. Enforced quotas are definitely in the future. It's going to be a heck of a fight to retain the "bok" emblem. The "powers that be", will not countenance a coach from abroad. After 05 December, the entire support group to the RWC team will be unemployed. The board of SARU will change dramatically. Demographics have nothing to do with it. Our national soccer team is not "demographically" correct. If you take a team like Namibia, with only 1200 registered rugby players in the entire country and looking at the makeup of their team, where does that leave the argument? (Hats off to them! It's a big country!) Demographically "correct" people, do not play rugby. However, the whole stink, is just another way by our brothers to screw the "incorrect", out of sheer spite and to be able to put up a hand, saying, "I drilled them good hey?" All and everything for political gain. Eventually, what is now a beloved sport, will become too much of a burden and we will lose interest. Our rugby is headed the same way as our police force, army, air force, navy, department of health, education. I can make a very long list, but you get the idea.

That's why i support France, as per my alliance on this forum. I still love the Boks, but the political interference has become too much, and i've always loved France as my second team.
 
As an American, I watch the Bok team selection process with bemusement. I'll be the first to admit that my country has had its fair share of race issues. To address some of these wrongs, we have things like affirmative action, to give historically disadvantaged minorities a leg up in education, employment, etc.but sports selection has always been colorblind. You don't do affirmative action at the national team level. What needs to happen is for academies, programs, etc. to be set up at the grassroots level to build up the rugby playing base in traditionally non-rugby areas, among black communities, etc. so that in 3, 5, 10 years, you have a solid playing base of young guys who can be channeled upwards into the elite ranks.
 
To be honest I find all this cynicism about our country to be very wearying. In the end we don't have a quota system in rugby and I don't think we will in the near future. The 50% goal is just that a goal not enforceable policy and since roughly 30% of our squad were people of colour this year 50% isn't that far off, especially since I think a lesser number will be accepted closer to the world cup. Anyone who says we didn't win this world cup because of political interference is talking utter nonsense, we lost for many reasons and if racial quotas was one of those reasons it was a very very small one.
Also the number of quality black players should continue to increase as inequality in the country evens out, so I think we can probably find ourselves in a place where we are only slightly weakened by quota goals.

As for Heineke Meyer, I've come to the decision that I'd be happy with him having another four years, partly because I think it takes more than 4 years to build a championship team and partly because I don't see many other options. I did recently read an article that claimed HM said we don't have the requisite skills to play an expansive game, and if true I'd rather Heineke does get fired, I'm inclined to think the article is ,making stuff up though, what do you guys think? Heinken you generally have good bull#### spotting abilities: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/WorldCup/Meyer-Boks-have-no-skills-20151103
 
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As a Welshman, I have no problem with targets BUT I do have a problem with quotas. The national team should always be picked on merit and merit alone.

When a national team has quotas this involves lying and defrauding nationals of another country. You are expecting foreign fans to pay to watch a national team when that national team is NOT the best national team the country can put out. This is not right. I understand that bad things happened in the past but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
 
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I thought British papers comments were bad.

Looked at some of the SA press and articles with comments at the bottom and the amount of disrespect to some of SA great stalwarts is really poor form IMO. Not there fault they were picked all would give 100% in a bok jersey and should always get the respect they have deserved. Happens i guess.

I hope Meyer stays TBH i met him at welford road whilst he was here and always came across as a very nice and also deeply passionate about SA rugby but i don't know enough of the behind scenes of SA sports and rugby to have a proper grasp on his situation.
 
Joel WHO?Please don't base your opinion of one of the top teams in the world on THAT guy's feelings!

They were my opinions, I was merely noting that Stransky felt similar. Is he not well thought of in South Africa? I'd have thought, by his deeds, that he'd earned the right to express a view on who should be the South African coach.
 
I wonder if a "B" team (somewhat like the NZ Maori, although I concede that the comparison isn't quite accurate) consisting of black players would be a good way to give up and coming black players more exposure, especially at the international level, assuming that they hve a reasonable level of proficiency and can compete with the 2nd tier countries. That way, the pressure is not necessarily there to make the Boks squad at all costs, to the detriment of the "A" squad, but they get to play for the country as well and get valuable experience on an international stage.
 

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