[November Tests 2017 EOYT] England vs. Australia (18/11/2017)

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just to add the Aussies were some of the loudest laughs when England appeared to struggle with the Italians and the whole no ruck/offside rule. I seem to recall players must be very stupid to not understand the offside rules...

 

[The Jones Boy]

Meanwhile the kiwis are unbearable because anything less than 100% is a disaster..

It's a cross we bear...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ideally, yeah, but then derpus would have no place to go. Maybe we create a separate thread in the off-topic section entitled the "flat rugby ball society."



In seriousness, one of the few teams currently bearable in defeat is ireland, and I reckon it's because they don't have any insecurities about beating england. They know they can beat us roughly 50% of the time so it doesn't stress them too much when they don't. Whereas the Aussies can feel the old order slipping away I guess.
Meanwhile the kiwis are unbearable because anything less than 100% is a disaster..

I predict a pretty huge fallout between us soon, current Ireland England relationship status:

 

[ncurd]

I think Ireland/England relationship will last until one looses at home. Or when either of us beat the other in the world cup final cause we know we'll both make it winning our groups.

 

[Which Tyler]

I think Ireland/England relationship will last until one looses at home. Or when either of us beat the other in the world cup final cause we know we'll both make it winning our groups.

Even then, sell still be united in our mutual dislike of Gatland

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When England and Ireland see each other at the six nations opening day

 

[Hound]

Flat earth is real because if Australia really was underneath us every time they kicked the ball itd just shoot off into space.

The defense presents Reece Hodge's leg as Exhibit A....

 

[Pom in Exile]

During the game, i agree. After the game, i think it is ridiculous.
If i were up to me, i'd give the res more resources, increase pay, better training (whatever that means), but i'd make them hold press conferences. Yes.
The idea that the ref's word if final is very important in my book. The idea that the ref's word is beyond reproach is ludicrous.
Refs sometimes have more impact than players of coaches. Let them be scrutinized. We can discuss how, but some sort of questions should be asked. People, players, coaches and staff deserve to know the rationale behind some calls and as things stand right now, we do not.
Some of the decisions they are just mind blowing, and this might shed a bit of light. WR talks (a lot) about transparency. Well, here's an area of improvement.
For example, I for one would love to hear Marius van der Westhuizen take on Tuculet's yellow card (Eng vs Arg game, was either RC or play on for me and i cannot understand the logic for a yellow).
And if it is a mistake, that's fine, but bloody say it.

Inside the pitch, they should be treated as god like creatures. Outside, nah.

I think that's fair enough up to a point, however at the same time when coaches and players are wilfully ignorant of the laws of the game and spout off about it after the game a la Chieka and Hooper, they should have the law book thrown at them literally and repeatedly.

 

[Pom in Exile]

When England and Ireland see each other at the six nations opening day

What's this sorcery?

 

[Pom in Exile]

The defense presents Reece Hodge's leg as Exhibit A....

Yeah, poor lad, had a shocker. He might very week not be a winger either.

 

[Derpus]

Having calmed down, and re-watched the game, i'm satisfied England deserved to win comfortably. So damn clinical. Kick more than you pass but hell the conditions were ****** so why not.

I think what makes the refereeing decisions so hard to swallow was just how often we see most of that let go, consistently. Given the complexity of the rules Rugby is really a game where, if you look at any sequence of play closely enough, you can usually find some form of infringement. I don't think England's play suffered the same scrutiny. For example, it looked like the winger was offside from my (admittedly poor) TV angle for the first try, it was never checked.

Having said that, i think most of the 50/50's were largely correct. The Beale yellow highlights how **** the knock-down rule has become. It's a zero sum game. It's either intercept try or yellow card for a largely instinctive reaction. Clearly wasn't in the same vein as the SBW knock-down.

Didn't help that our star performers for the year all shat the bed. Beale had a shocking match, Hooper was ill-disciplined and Genia couldn't pass the damn ball. I think that, on another day, we click and those final few seconds go our way and it's a completely different ball-game. Can't wait till we let Hodge do all the goalkicking. Koroibete the only bright spot.

I also think, with our three best players, Pocock, Folau and Coleman, back in the team (plus a whole swathe of other injured players) we'll be far more formidable. This wasn't the same team that beat the All Blacks.

Well played England.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Having calmed down, and re-watched the game, i'm satisfied England deserved to win comfortably. So damn clinical. Kick more than you pass but hell the conditions were ****** so why not.

I think what makes the refereeing decisions so hard to swallow was just how often we see most of that let go, consistently. Given the complexity of the rules Rugby is really a game where, if you look at any sequence of play closely enough, you can usually find some form of infringement. I don't think England's play suffered the same scrutiny. For example, it looked like the winger was offside from my (admittedly poor) TV angle for the first try, it was never checked.

Having said that, i think most of the 50/50's were largely correct. The Beale yellow highlights how **** the knock-down rule has become. It's a zero sum game. It's either intercept try or yellow card for a largely instinctive reaction. Clearly wasn't in the same vein as the SBW knock-down.

Didn't help that our star performers for the year all shat the bed. Beale had a shocking match, Hooper was ill-disciplined and Genia couldn't pass the damn ball. I think that, on another day, we click and those final few seconds go our way and it's a completely different ball-game. Can't wait till we let Hodge do all the goalkicking. Koroibete the only bright spot.

I also think, with our three best players, Pocock, Folau and Coleman, back in the team (plus a whole swathe of other injured players) we'll be far more formidable. This wasn't the same team that beat the All Blacks.

Well played England.

Coleman one of your 3 best players? Surely Hooper, Beale and Kuridrani as well as others are far above him.

 

[Derpus]

Coleman one of your 3 best players? Surely Hooper, Beale and Kuridrani as well as others are far above him.

Well, i suppose best is the wrong way to put it. He's certainly more important than Hooper or Beale, as Australia tend to produce plenty of 7s and outside backs. But the drop off from Coleman to our next best lock is a cliff.

Edit: and we started with our 5th, 6th and 7th choice locks.

 

[ThebigARena]

When England and Ireland see each other at the six nations opening day

It's very dangerous, putting them together. I don't think they can handle it. I don't trust them.

 

[Hound]

Coleman one of your 3 best players? Surely Hooper, Beale and Kuridrani as well as others are far above him.

Coleman is about the only lock that Cheika is comfortable with. (Edited afterthought: and for some baffling reason Rob Simmons)

Which is funny, considering how picky he is there... when he's pretty much glued Ned Hanigan into the 6 jersey despite the fact he appears to be constructed entirely from balsa wood, papier mache and cellophane.

 

[Derpus]

Coleman is about the only lock that Cheika is comfortable with. (Edited afterthought: and for some baffling reason Rob Simmons)

Which is funny, considering how picky he is there... when he's pretty much glued Ned Hanigan into the 6 jersey despite the fact he appears to be constructed entirely from balsa wood, papier mache and cellophane.

Hanigan won't even be starting for the Tahs if Dempsey is fit.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I also think, with our three best players, Pocock, Folau and Coleman, back in the team (plus a whole swathe of other injured players) we'll be far more formidable. This wasn't the same team that beat the All Blacks
.

No it wasn't the same team. People underestimate what a talisman Izzy is for the Wallabies. He's a monster for them.
Pocock is genuine world class.
That's the thing about Aussie, they can fall at many hurdles along the way but when the prize is on offer they have the ability to focus collectively and lift their game to another level.
Before the 2015 RWC the Wallabies were in the wilderness and Cheika only had them for 6 months prior.
Then they wind up in one of the most entertaining finals of all time.
They can't afford to be without Folau, he is massive for them.

 

[Mike Rolls]

Don't forget that Australia only got to that final thanks to the ref's mistake beating Scotland.
Mike

 

[Spuds100]

'mistakes'

 

[nh206]

I felt that this was a very flattering scoreline for England and one which I worry will paper over some glaring cracks. Primarily that we really struggle to get any go forwards when presented with a solid, well organised defence. Whilst we have seen some big improvements from Hughes and Lawes in their carrying, when bogged down, these are all coming as 1st receiver runners. In the absence of any big ball carrying backs, would it not be a benefit to vary the point of attack here? Particularly when Australia seemed pretty switched on to the deep second receiver and quite effectively neutralised Farrell on the pull back a couple of times.

The scrum is definitely not a strength for us at the moment. Whilst it seemed like a lottery at times in this match (so many early engagement calls against both teams) it does worry me when we come up against a properly strong pack.

There were a good deal of positives for England. Jonny May is really growing into the role, ok he gave away a couple of turnovers but he was chasing kicks hard and a lot of the knock-ons were in 50-50 competitions anyway. His finish for his try was not easy and his offload for Care's showed good awareness. Watson looked pretty solid at 15 and I hope that we continue with him there, especially against Samoa. Launch and Lawes looked as good as I've seen them and Lawes has clearly been working hard on his carrying. And I thought Hartley had his best game in ages. The from hand kicking and game orchestration from Youngs, Ford and Farrell was brilliant.

For Aus, Genia had an absolute shocker, was only conspicuous for his mistakes which is very unusual from a usually quality player. Beale had a rough day even without the yellow card, coughed up a lot of ball but was kept under pressure by the kicking and the conditions. Foley was clearly targeted when hidden in defence and I thought this kept him pretty quiet, one for Eddie there. Kepu had some brilliant runs and looked very dangerous. I'm constantly impressed by Hooper's work rate, he seems to be everywhere in attack and defence.

I have deliberately stayed away from the contentious decisions as they have been thoroughly discussed already.