[November Tests 2017 EOYT] Ireland vs. South Africa (11/11/2017)

[Nubiwan]

Sorry, outside watching just about any southern hem rugby I can get my hands on, I am in something of a vacuum when it comes to the political situation and the boks. Outside the innuendo I read, it's hard for me to put 2 and 2 together.

Can someone give me the background on what has developed in recent years to weaken the SARU? Losing players to northern rugby being one issue I read, but what 'political' pressures do they face, if any, which undermine the strength of their sides?

Sorry, but not so clear here in a politically stable North America, where electoral candidates range from bozo the clown to Arnold Schwarzenegger, and the only news worthy foreign nations are Syria, Iraq and North Korea.

So, am I to understand the ANC has declared all sports bodies need to up their black player quotas. That the issue? Can one assume most rugby clubs and their feeder systems/schools are more or less of the Caucasian persuasion? Would that be accurate?

 

[Amiga500]

So, am I to understand the ANC has declared all sports bodies need to up their black player quotas. That the issue? Can one assume most rugby clubs and their feeder systems/schools are more or less of the Caucasian persuasion? Would that be accurate?

Broadly yes.

 

[Ospervat]

So, am I to understand the ANC has declared all sports bodies need to up their black player quotas. That the issue? Can one assume most rugby clubs and their feeder systems/schools are more or less of the Caucasian persuasion? Would that be accurate?

It isn't just the number of players that need to meet targets. It's all appointments - directors, management, operations, administrators, support, coaching, and players. It's affirmative action at its most reckless. Individuals are appointed to roles when they don't have the skills, knowledge, experience or gravitas to carry out the duties effectively. Very often these appointments are nepotistic or acquired through corrupt channels.
Africa will do as Africa has always done.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Was anyone else surprised that this was only SOB's 50th cap? I'd have thought he would be around the 70 mark.

 

[Diomedes]

Was anyone else surprised that this was only SOB's 50th cap? I'd have thought he would be around the 70 mark.

Not particularly; his problems with injury are widely known and the backrow has been an area of relative strength for Ireland during this period.

 

[Ospervat]

Irish pundits - half time analysis.
Would love to know what they said at FT.

 

[Amiga500]

Irish pundits - half time analysis.
Would love to know what they said at FT.

https://www.rte.ie/player/gb/show/guinness-series-extras-30004370/10801748/

Should be viewable anywhere/

 

[Icemn]

What a masterclass by Joe Schmidt... who is this guy? he def has NZ heritage no?

The game was won off the field as simple as that, Boks (Gameplan if any) are way too predictable...

Boks need to pull the plug on Toetie and Co and hope the next gaffer know what to bring to the table and to be in the same tactical league as Hansen, Schmidt, Jones, Gatlan etc

These guys are masters at tactically analyzing the opposition, stopping the opposition at playing their game and allowing them to play their own game

The New coach has 1.5 years to prepare for the WC - Goodluck... so pull the plug sooner rather than later

On a positive note (for SA) what a game by Beast :O i've never seen him play like this, the intensity, he really stood up... PSdT was also immense... is it just me of does he looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger

 

[AM_Bokke]

AC could win games but he won ugly. I think in one season under AC we won 16/18 pool games but we hadn't scored a single bonus point (which was just 4 tries back then). He has never coached a style of rugby where his team scores a lot of points.
In my opinion rugby has evolved to a point where that old style of play is ineffective, and even if it was still effective AC hasn't selected the players to execute that kind of game plan. He selects Ross Cronje and Jantjies/Skosan/Leyds which are all players that thrive on a more fast paced attacking game plan.

This isn't about race, I've defending quota's on this forum in the past, I'm young and liberal, he's just a bad coach and the evidence keeps piling up that this is the case. Maybe I shouldn't have brought up the other SR coaches but they represent the most successful of our unions over the past year, and they all seem to have a coherent idea about what they want to do in terms of game plan.

I know it's very easy to say "this isn't about race" but I've just reached the end of my tether with AC and it has nothing to do with the amount of melanin in his skin. We are 2 years into AC's tenure and I have yet to see anything from our team that would suggest they are well coached side.

I just watched the Wales v. Australia game and there were like zero box kicks in the match. Very running and fluid.

Now, I'm not sure if the Boks would've been successful playing like this against Ireland, the Irish were pretty stifling, but they did get wide a few times and screwed it up (DDA's kick, Kolisi threw the ball into touch, etc).

But two things:

1) the "kicking game" that AC talks about is not as necessary in the NH like he seems to think. It's not something the Boks NEED to be able to do regardless of personnel.

2) it is Ireland's game. And Ireland was successful in getting SA to play their game.

Anyway, just thought that comparing the two games was interesting.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I just watched the Wales v. Australia game and there were like zero box kicks in the match. Very running and fluid.

Now, I'm not sure if the Boks would've been successful playing like this against Ireland, the Irish were pretty stifling, but they did get wide a few times and screwed it up (DDA's kick, Kolisi threw the ball into touch, etc).

But two things:

1) the "kicking game" that AC talks about is not as necessary in the NH like he seems to think. It's not something the Boks NEED to be able to do regardless of personnel.

2) it is Ireland's game. And Ireland was successful in getting SA to play their game.

Anyway, just thought that comparing the two games was interesting.

You can't use that comparison though.

Both Wales and Australia are very good under the high ball, so it wouldn't make sense for either team to use that tactic. The idea of using the high ball is to put the opposition under pressure and try to win territory and possession.

Ireland knew our guys are weak under the high ball, especially Skosan. Did you see that Ireland only kicked towards him in the game and not to Leyds?

 

[Icemn]

this just in...

seems like flying economy class is the reason for the shock defeat to Ireland according to Toetie...

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/did-flying-economy-class-adversely-affect-boks-20171115

nou het ek al alles gehoor...

 

[AM_Bokke]

You can't use that comparison though.

Both Wales and Australia are very good under the high ball, so it wouldn't make sense for either team to use that tactic. The idea of using the high ball is to put the opposition under pressure and try to win territory and possession.

Ireland knew our guys are weak under the high ball, especially Skosan. Did you see that Ireland only kicked towards him in the game and not to Leyds?

Yes, I definitely noticed that Skosan was getting most of the kicks. Ok, so what does this say about SA's game plan then?

Should someone else have started over Skosan?

Should SA have box kicked through Ross less? Or was it a legitimate option for them to explore in this game?

 

[User1245]

What a masterclass by Joe Schmidt... who is this guy? he def has NZ heritage no?

The game was won off the field as simple as that, Boks (Gameplan if any) are way too predictable...

Boks need to pull the plug on Toetie and Co and hope the next gaffer know what to bring to the table and to be in the same tactical league as Hansen, Schmidt, Jones, Gatlan etc

These guys are masters at tactically analyzing the opposition, stopping the opposition at playing their game and allowing them to play their own game

The New coach has 1.5 years to prepare for the WC - Goodluck... so pull the plug sooner rather than later

On a positive note (for SA) what a game by Beast :O i've never seen him play like this, the intensity, he really stood up... PSdT was also immense... is it just me of does he looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger

The sad thing is everyone this side of Texas knows that to win this match all you needed to do is (1) drop bombs on the shaky back 3 and (2) apply a rush defence to (a) put Jantjies under pressure who will then drop deeper into the pocket and (b) stop our ball carriers momentum.

Neither the players or coaches seemed to be able to adapt accordingly.

If France don't follow this blue print I'd be most surprised.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes, I definitely noticed that Skosan was getting most of the kicks. Ok, so what does this say about SA's game plan then?

Should someone else have started over Skosan?

Should SA have box kicked through Ross less? Or was it a legitimate option for them to explore in this game?

Well, here I blame the coach. Ireland basically flat out said it ahead of the game that they will do the bombs. Yet we didn't do anything to counter it.

Cronje is not a good box kicker, and often gets charged down or over kicks it. Skosan is not good under the high ball.

So if we wanted to play the same tactic we should have gone for another scrumhalf and wing.