Petition asks for changes to Six Nations Championship

[alexvoica]

Hi everyone,

The 2015 Rugby World Cup has seen some of the best performances in recent history from teams considered to be part of the Tier 2 nations group, including Japan, Samoa, Georgia, Canada or Romania.

With this in mind, I've decided to start a petition asking the organizers of the Six Nations Championship to allow a fair system of promotion/relegation.

I know this is a sensitive topic for some but I think I'd be interesting to see what others think.

For those who want to have a look at the petition, here it is:
https://www.change.org/p/john-feeha...llowing-a-fair-system-of-promotion-relegation

Thanks!
Alex.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not me!

 

[McTallshort]

Scotland and Italy would never agree it

 

[alexvoica]

Neither would France circa 2013.

But what I'm suggesting isn't a direct relegation which I guess would be the more radical move.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...en-up-the-Six-Nations-and-let-Georgia-in.html

Instead, the team who gets the wooden spoon would play a match against the top ENC squad. The winner would then earn the right to play in alongside the other five nations.

 

[Tony Manx]

Neither would France circa 2013.

But what I'm suggesting isn't a direct relegation which I guess would be the more radical move.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...en-up-the-Six-Nations-and-let-Georgia-in.html

Instead, the team who gets the wooden spoon would play a match against the top ENC squad. The winner would then earn the right to play in alongside the other five nations.

1 I do not like the idea

2 the TV companies would never allow it

3 none of the participants would agree to it

4 the supporters who go to the matches would not want it due to the added expense

 

[alexvoica]

It's nice to see that two of your four reasons are related to TV companies and corporations.

I guess I need to bow down to my new corporate masters and accept whatever they dictate.

I'm pretty sure the prices for plane tickets to Italy or France are comparable to Romania, Spain, or Georgia. I can guarantee that food and board are definitely much cheaper.

 

[Tony Manx]

It's nice to see that two of your four reasons are related to TV companies and corporations.

I guess I need to bow down to my new corporate masters and accept whatever .

Way of the world, way of the world!

It will not last forever but right now, way if the world!

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would love for it to happen.

But the powers that be prob wouldn't.

It would be very hard on Italy or Scotland if they were to go down there club rugby isn't stable enough to handle it yet IMO.

But we need to expand the growth elsewhere.

 

[TheOvalBall]

add teams and call it European Rugby Championship.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The whole rugby season needs looking at. At both club and country level.

AP needs a proper development league if a club can't make find enough players then either ask championship teams or maybe include Scotland clubs and Welsh clubs.

We need to work out if the LV cup is worth keeping then.

Would love for this WC to be the cause of a mass change.

 

[Rich Taff]

The sheer attrition rate in rugby doesn't really allow for any annual 'large number of teams' competition.
The success of the 6n is very much down to the intensity of 5 games in 6 weeks, (and even that was a bit of a tough step up from the 5n)
It's also down to the fact that they know they can stick Wales away games on Friday evenings, and still ensure 100k drunken Welsh will turn up for them.
I'm not totally adverse to a playoff for the 6th spot, but Italy had to wait a long long time to be admitted, and it would (in my opinion) set the game back years if they were to be relegated.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Franchises.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

The sheer attrition rate in rugby doesn't really allow for any annual 'large number of teams' competition.
The success of the 6n is very much down to the intensity of 5 games in 6 weeks, (and even that was a bit of a tough step up from the 5n)
It's also down to the fact that they know they can stick Wales away games on Friday evenings, and still ensure 100k drunken Welsh will turn up for them.
I'm not totally adverse to a playoff for the 6th spot, but Italy had to wait a long long time to be admitted, and it would (in my opinion) set the game back years if they were to be relegated.

This is the biggest load of crap I've ever read. Creating a competition for 8 teams that fits within the six weeks is fairly straight forward. You simply place the teams in two pools of four with the top two advancing to the playoff rounds in each. You could even give the winners of each pool a bye and force the other too two teams in each pool to play each other in a "quarterfinal" while the losers play a "wooden spoon" match. This would guarantee maximum profits and each team would be guaranteed four games up to a maximum of six.

This would mean that you don't play every team but the pools would be randomized yearly so their would be more variety which is important in sporting competitions. Of course, money needs to be taken in to account but an easy way to do this would be via a revenue sharing agreement much like what is used in the National Football League, ie the richest, most successful, sports league in the world.

You'd have more teams, which means a potentially larger TV deal could be struck as the population your covering is now significantly larger. You're also helping build your own national teams brand, something the All Blacks are very good at, which is why they can fill a 65,000 seat football stadium in Chicago, but the Home Nations can not.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't like the idea of pool games TBH in the 6N's.

Would rather shorten the June tests and increase the 6N by another week.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I don't like the idea of pool games TBH in the 6N's.

Would rather shorten the June tests and increase the 6N by another week.

But this is why the Six Nations will never expand, because the people in the Home Nations don't want it to. They would rather play 10 games against Wales a year than one game against Georgia, Romania or even Italy. This is the ugly truth and why Rugby remains a fairly small sport in terms of money, overall popularity, etc...

another way to do it would be still have pools but after the three games have been played you have a cross-over playoff.

Pool A 1 vs Pool B 4
Pool B 1 vs Pool A 4
Pool A 2 vs Pool B 3
Pool B 2 vs Pool A 3

then you have semis and finals, the combinations and possibilities are endless. With the proper revenue sharing model in place the unions wouldn't need to really worry about lost revenues either. We could even give teams that win finanical bonuses to reward performance.

This is how NFL teams only play 16 games a season yet make boat loads of money. It's not necessary to play the same teams every season, in fact it adds an air of uncertainty to the games as you never know what cross-conference teams you will need to play.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Some of what you're saying is patently ********.

Very few people would want to play the same team multiple times per year, and variety isn't necessarily important in sporting competitions, outside of results, that is.
In fact one of the great strengths of the 6N, IMO, is the fact that it's a very simple competition with very few "moving parts".

It's an event - not a league.

You're right though - unless the 6n wants to expand, the 6n wont expand.

You'd have more teams, which means a potentially larger TV deal could be struck as the population your covering is now significantly larger. You're also helping build your own national teams brand, something the All Blacks are very good at, which is why they can fill a 65,000 seat football stadium in Chicago, but the Home Nations can not.

The AB's brand is built solely on the fact that they have the Haka as their (very sucessful) gimmick, and the small matter of laying claim to one of the most brutally dominant winning records of any major sports team.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Some of what you're saying is patently ********.

Very few people would want to play the same team multiple times per year, and variety isn't necessarily important in sporting competitions, outside of results, that is.
In fact one of the great strengths of the 6N, IMO, is the fact that it's a very simple competition with very few "moving parts".

You're right though - unless the 6n wants to expand, the 6n wont expand.

What did I say that you think is BS? Ok I did say that you'd rather play the Welsh 10 times a year but I was half joking when I said that. I thought the English understood banter, Non?

I merely gave an example of how you could easily fit an eight team tournament into six weeks. There are a variety of ways to do it. You folks don't like it though because it means potentially missing out on a big test against a home nation.

If England are for instance, drawn in to a group with Ireland, Italy and Georgia. They would only potentially play one home nation that season. That is important to you guys because it's a potential money loser for you. I propose that a method to offset this is with revenue sharing but also with a playoff stage following the group stage.

You really only have four options:

1. Relegation - non-starter because it would kill the program of whoever got relegated, this could be partially offset with a parachute payment though, much like the Aviva gives the club that finishes bottom.

2. Expand the Six Nations to Eight with two groups of four - advantage is the calendar doesn't need to be lengthened, disadvantage is that you miss out on potential home nations tests.

3. Expand the Six Nations to Eight - advantage is more games disadvantage is the calendar would need to be lengthened which would impact the club game.

4. No Expansion - Status Quo

You could also expand the tournament by one team but two is a better number so it's not really a good option.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

Some of what you're saying is patently ********.

Very few people would want to play the same team multiple times per year, and variety isn't necessarily important in sporting competitions, outside of results, that is.
In fact one of the great strengths of the 6N, IMO, is the fact that it's a very simple competition with very few "moving parts".

It's an event - not a league.

You're right though - unless the 6n wants to expand, the 6n wont expand.



The AB's brand is built solely on the fact that they have the Haka as their (very sucessful) gimmick, and the small matter of laying claim to one of the most brutally dominant winning records of any major sports team.

You can actually reply to me rather than editing out your post to make yourself sound smarter. It's kind of impolite.

Merriam-Webster defines a League as "a group of sports teams that regularly play one another"

hmmm sounds a lot like the 6N to me

You're right about the All Blacks brand being built on the Haka and winning but they are also doing things to expand the brand. They've played recent games in Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, USA, Samoa to name but a few. They've also got the NZ Maori to tour to the US, Canada and Japan recently. They are doing things to further enhance their brand, you can't deny that.

 

[ratsapprentice]

You can actually reply to me rather than editing out your post to make yourself sound smarter. It's kind of impolite.

My last edit was 7 mins before your reply.

Absolutely we don't want to miss out on a big test against a home nation, that's what the tournament is ostensibly - an annual set of games between the British and Irish teams, we've since expanded to include France and Italy.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

My last edit was 7 mins before your reply.

Absolutely we don't want to miss out on a big test against a home nation, that's what the tournament is ostensibly - an annual set of games between the British and Irish teams, we've since expanded to include France and Italy.

I just looked and you're right, my apologies.

You pretty much hit what I wanted to say. To me the money argument is an excuse because the tournament would probably make more money if it were expanded.

The real impediment is the home nations not wanting to lose potential tests against one and other. Basically tradition is what's keeping the tournament a closed shop. That's the story of the sport of rugby itself.