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Pichot "forces" the Pumas to join the SR in 2016

Superalexmarket

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In a recent press conference, Agustin Pichot (Lord and Master of argentine rugby) explained how would be the restructuring of Argentine rugby after the creation of the franchise who'll take part in the SR in 2016.

Here the main items:

* The Super Rugby franchise will be 100 percent of the UAR. There will not be another actor, not private or the state.

* Players who do not disputing the Super Rugby because they are in European clubs can not be part of Los Pumas since 2016.

* It seems it will not be place for foreign players in the franchise, but some argentine player in other southern team could be part of the Pumas.

* Before the end of the year will be recruited 24 players chosen by the staff of Los Pumas led by Daniel Hourcade and those responsible Plar. The idea of the UAR is to end 2015 with a batch of 35 to 45 hired. Those players will contest the Super Rugby, and, with Los Pumas Rugby Championship and windows June and November.

* The UAR create an HR management that will take care of these contracts, which will be individual and scales. Those who play in Los Pumas charged extra, but no prize for winning.

* Players who are hired not only have the advantage of being at home, but have a less strenuous competition in Europe, where surely, on the other hand, pay more. Pichot said he is driving with Sanzar a calendar with 16 weeks off for players. In Europe, reaching 34-36 games a year, which is about to explode with many injured.

* Next year the staff will lead the franchise will be defined. The idea is that not the same as that of Los Pumas.

* The UAR obviously not have the same percentage gain (yes decision) that New Zealand, South Africa and Australia in the Sanzar, but according Pichot, "more than minimal" which aimed at Argentina was achieved. Anyway, several percentages are still negotiating, but most importantly, the TV, will allow the UAR meet most of the cost of the franchise. Everything else will gain and thicken the budget.

* The Argentine team will play at least 8 matches in Argentina. It will local at Buenos Aires

* It is still in search of a land to build a stadium and a high performance center, but for now is a distant possibility.

* Another from Pichot: Argentina wants at least be present to host the 2023 World Cup.

* In his pre-conference speech, highlighted the fact Pichot return to an Argentine team made up of players who are in Argentina. "The Argentina shirts are our clubs, not outsiders," said the Argentine representative in the Sanzar and the World Rugby. Hence it is very difficult for the integrated franchise a player from another country.

* There will be a second batch of players Plar not hired, that will be the development of high competence to deal tournaments like the Nation Cup, the South American and the Americas Cup.

* To solve: what to do with contract, for example, do not play the Rugby Championship? Be few. The Interior can play for their clubs. And it remains to be seen whether the URBA maintains its status or change in its March meeting.

* Pichot emphasized something that is real in this plan: separate the professional and amateur shielding domestic competition. The 3 emphasized that a schedule with URBA and television ensued, establishing him clauses, so that professional competence will not remove the amateur space. It is a very good and crucial point if realized successfully.

* The UAR in 2014 had a balance of $ 17 million. Record.

* There are 57,431 players across the country, not counting the children.

* 695 trainings were held across the country. In that area, the Argentina is the second country in the world after South Africa.

* Will continue betting fortify the federal jurisdiction. There will, again, 58 clubs while competing in the National Club, Tournament of Interior A and B and the Super 9
 
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Draggs

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Drawing all national squad players from one team is a terrible idea. Super Rugby will give them what, 18 matches? They will either have to do heavy rotation or be prepared to pick a national side with just over 20 fit players.
 

jonny24

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So their stars in Europe are expected to give up what they've achieved to come play for an expansion franchise?
 
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Wendigo7

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So Matera and co are all expected to leave for this franchise I'm correct in saying?
 

j'nuh

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Would be interesting to see if they would keep the embargo up if all their top players stayed in Europe anyway.
 

Every Time Ref

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Interesting. It seems like a potential risk - if many Argentinians playing in Europe choose their current club, or even if just a few experienced key players do so, they could end up with the national team slightly screwed.

Drawing all national squad players from one team is a terrible idea. Super Rugby will give them what, 18 matches? They will either have to do heavy rotation or be prepared to pick a national side with just over 20 fit players.

I don't see how the risk of injury / tired players is any greater because they're all playing for the same franchise? Surely they'd all be playing the same amount and same intensity of domestic rugby anyway?

Can I ask, what is Plar? I've seen it mentioned in connection with young Argentinian rugby players a lot, it seems to be something to do with young player development? Is it a training centre or something, or a national coaching setup?
 

LittleGuy

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Interesting. It seems like a potential risk - if many Argentinians playing in Europe choose their current club, or even if just a few experienced key players do so, they could end up with the national team slightly screwed.



I don't see how the risk of injury / tired players is any greater because they're all playing for the same franchise? Surely they'd all be playing the same amount and same intensity of domestic rugby anyway?

Can I ask, what is Plar? I've seen it mentioned in connection with young Argentinian rugby players a lot, it seems to be something to do with young player development? Is it a training centre or something, or a national coaching setup?

Is Draggs getting at the opposite point? That other than those 20(and a couple more) players who will be playing regularly for this team there will be no depth created and a lot of the fringe members of the squad won't be match fit as they will have come from the amateur levels of Argentine competition.
 

Every Time Ref

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Aha, yes that makes much more sense. That's the worry of creating, essentially, the same squad for both domestic and international teams - if you have potential but are not international class yet, who are you going to play for while you learn to fulfil that potential?
 

Tony Manx

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The idea of pushing Puma rugby forward with the Super 18 and RC is great and this has to start somewhere.

With their involvement in the SH championship, the chances of the top Pumas gaining a contract with the top clubs in the NH diminishes every season and these guys are trying to promote the idea of a more locally based squad for all the right reasons.

There are initial problems (do you give up a NH contract with its money or go home to develop Puma rugby?) but there has to be a start somewhere and this is probably as best as they can do..............it will be a slow progress and there have (and will be more) mistakes but let us support the initative and constructively criticise the mistakes in the always hopeful offchance that they will see them and then correct them!!
 

Draggs

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LG is correct. They will establish a best XV and best 23 with only slight changes. Too much rotation can disturb the stability of the team, but keeping with roughly the same squad means plenty will be left out.

Take Tuculet, Amorosino, Agulla, Imhoff, Montero. They all start weekly at their clubs for the most part. Under this system at least one will miss rugby each week. If they want to restrict players to playing in Argentina that's fine down the line, but wait until they have two teams at least.
 

Tony Manx

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LG is correct. They will establish a best XV and best 23 with only slight changes. Too much rotation can disturb the stability of the team, but keeping with roughly the same squad means plenty will be left out.

Take Tuculet, Amorosino, Agulla, Imhoff, Montero. They all start weekly at their clubs for the most part. Under this system at least one will miss rugby each week. If they want to restrict players to playing in Argentina that's fine down the line, but wait until they have two teams at least.

I cannot but agree but you have to start somewhere and there are not enough top pros in the country.........I can hardly believe there will not be "special dispensations" but look how Wales have had to fight to get their top players to come back/stay home and I can see where the Pumas are coming for.

My hope is that they will indeed find other matches to keep the "rest" of the squad in regular competitive rugby and even more so at a good level....
 

ratsapprentice

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I like Pichot and his healthy distrust of private equity.
 

Tony Manx

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I like Pichot and his healthy distrust of private equity.

Surely Puma rugby is a loooooooooooooong way before any reasonable Equity company would be vaguely interested in making an investment!! Most of these guys cannot see further than three years and Puma rugby will need far more than that!!
 

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Agree with Draggs. Imagine if you did the same with Wales, just having one professional team to draw players from. Lydiate-Warburton-Faletau would start. Tipuric would make the bench. The rest would play amateur rugby. Hardly a position from which to try and break into the Argentina super rugby squad and national team.

It just doesn't work because without a few more clubs, players who are out of the XV have no options of places to move in order to seek first class rugby.

Allowing players to go overseas frees up spots for the next generation of talent. They're shooting themselves in the foot by not letting this talent emerge.
 

Superalexmarket

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Fernandez Lobbe would have decided to stay in Europe and reject Pichot's proposal, so ... goodbye National Team for "Cork" Lobbe ...
If this continues this way will be a disaster for Arg. rugby I think...
 

Tony Manx

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Fernandez Lobbe would have decided to stay in Europe and reject Pichot's proposal, so ... goodbye National Team for "Cork" Lobbe ...
If this continues this way will be a disaster for Arg. rugby I think...

He is 33 now..............and will be 35 when the rules change!!
 

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I usually don't get involved with such threads. I just take in the info. I don't understand economics in sports or anything logistic-oriented and even knowing half of it doesn't make me fit to give an opinion.
In depth, I hope this works out and Argentina, my second nation, gets something even remotely decent enough for their worth. The UAR is older than most Rugby fans think, their culture of Rugby is innate and genuine, and what with all the bullcrap from being such a far away nation, isolated in an entire Rugby-devoid continent, being third-world in some regards and hindering difficulties of the sort - they still produce the best LH prop in the world, they still produce the best TH prop in the world (when healthy) and possess the best scrum in the world, they still produce fine red wine..uhmm, sorry....they still hold up more than decently in the Rugby freakin Championship, beat the Wallabies, and they still come to Paris and get a win.
It's about time they get something - at least - half decent in accordance with what they rightfully deserve, GODDAMIT !! *slams left foot on table*

- - - Updated - - -

He is 33 now..............and will be 35 when the rules change!!

mmm yeahhh....plus I mean, he's...busy these days..leave Juan alone....
 

Draggs

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Boudjellal would jump at this, pay a player a bit more and they sign on with Toulon= No Argentine players leaving for international tests.

Works like a charm for Mitchell, Giteau, Armitages, et al.
 

Tony Manx

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Boudjellal would jump at this, pay a player a bit more and they sign on with Toulon= No Argentine players leaving for international tests.

Works like a charm for Mitchell, Giteau, Armitages, et al.

I believe he has to release them for international windows but, if you choose cash ahead of country and the country turns it back on you for that, you know where you stand and it is your choice. However, even England has "special circumstances" provisos....................lets us hope the Pumas use them initially anyway!!
 

goodNumber10

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Is Draggs getting at the opposite point? That other than those 20(and a couple more) players who will be playing regularly for this team there will be no depth created and a lot of the fringe members of the squad won't be match fit as they will have come from the amateur levels of Argentine competition.

Did I read it wrong or did it also say anyone playing for any of the Super 15 teams.

So hernandez playing for the sharks a few years ago would have been eligible.
 
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