Popularity rating: France

[Big Ewis]

hey,
just read about the first 26 pages of the '11 RWC Final thread....reminded me of the atmosphere back when I first joined this forum. Soooooo many more French posters, a shame they all left...would be nice to have some different perspectives sometimes...anyways.

That thread also reminded me of how much ppl respected France back then, after that match. World wide, everybody was really very respectful of the team...it's such a shame we couldn't quite keep the level that high subsequently...

A part from November 2012, that guaranteed us a spot in the Top 4 for 2015 after all, here's some of our record post-2011 RWC Final:
- 4th in 2012 6N
- 6th in 2013 6N
- haven't beaten England or Wales since RWC, i.e. in past two meetings.
- haven't beaten Ireland since 2011, a team we usually have our way against. Two straight draws.
- just lost clean sweep 3 test matches in NZ.

The thing is in almost each of these points there are some good things, until the 30-0 match in NZ where we really really sucked, we hadn't been CRUSHED by anyone these whole 2 years.

France as a rugby nation must have lost so much of that prestige it's ridiculous in the past couple of years. We have definitely under-performed consistently, absolutely no doubt. If it wasn't for that month of November, I suppose PSA would be hailed as the single worst coach in France history, potentially even int'l rugby history.

This is all eerily reminiscent of certain years where we sucked miserably but then rebounded in a quasi or entirely legendary way:
* 1999: Worst showing in 5N in decades. Even lost to Tonga that year, got crushed by NZ 54-7; only to come back and make the Finals after that insane upset in the semis of the RWC.
* 2007: get smaaaashed twice in a row in NZ, including our worst loss of all time, 61-10, only to again upset the AB in the RWC (forward pass or not, France played extremely well globally).

It's just a funny thing how France's popularity rating will fluctuate, seemingly for all time !..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

And I thought SA was inconsistent. I pity French supporters; I know that feel!

 

[yarmolinsky]

hey

Hey

I've got a kind of off-top newbie question on that matter. Not about popularity rating though, but regarding official IRB rankings. How come that after 3 lost tests France did not lose rating coefficient? And NZ as well has the same 90,08? It looks a bit confusing for me, could you shed a light? Thanks))

 

[nickdnz]

I always feel that France's problems in rugby are always very evident - and yet will never be fixed. When was the last time France actually signed the best prospective coach in France? PSA didn't win anything with Toulon despite a world class roster - it was over five years prior to his appointment that he had success with Sale Sharks. Marc Lievremont got Dax in the top 14 prom the Pro D2 and that was apparently enough to be coach of France. I know Guy Noves said he didn't want the job - but there had to be better coaches avalible.

Then you have the incredibly long domestic season. And the huge number of forign players in key positions.

In terms of French posters - there was a huge influx of French poster around the RWC final - I really don't miss the ones who left.

Hey

I've got a kind of off-top newbie question on that matter. Not about popularity rating though, but regarding official IRB rankings. How come that after 3 lost tests France did not lose rating coefficient? And NZ as well has the same 90,08? It looks a bit confusing for me, could you shed a light? Thanks))

I don't believe the ratings have been updated yet? Also France won't lose much and NZ won't gain much anyway.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

The difference in ranking points (8.49) + home handicap (3.00) was more than 10.00 , which is the cap the rankings use, meaning that a french win would have given 2 points to France (and make NZ lose 2) while a NZ win doesn't change anything.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Hey

I've got a kind of off-top newbie question on that matter. Not about popularity rating though, but regarding official IRB rankings. How come that after 3 lost tests France did not lose rating coefficient? And NZ as well has the same 90,08? It looks a bit confusing for me, could you shed a light? Thanks))

There are 4 factors that determine the changes in ranking points and thus rankings;

1 the team's current ranking which in this case was the biggest factor; NZ are so far ahead of France (in terms of ranking points if not ranking position) and thus favorites that France had literally nothing to lose. In fact they went up one spot because Wales dropped lower due to losing to Japan.
2 the margin; if you lose by 15+ the points exchanges becomes bigger
3 The team at home is considered at 3 points higher than their actual points.
4 in Rugby world cup games the points exchange double. Of course htis was not a factor here.

So in effect the lower team has everything to gain and the higher team everything to lose. The closer the teams are in terms of points the smaller the margin of points exchange.

 

[Superalexmarket]

It is very common to be quite critical of his own team, but they are only gusts of bad play that will soon pass. NOBODY can doubt the high quality of French rugby, would be stupid do it. So don't worry, the good times soon will arrive.

 

[yarmolinsky]

stormer2010,
TRF_nickdnz

guys, you are awesome) You've solved this mystery for me, thanks a mil!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It is very common to be quite critical of his own team, but they are only gusts of bad play that will soon pass. NOBODY can doubt the high quality of French rugby, would be stupid do it. So don't worry, the good times soon will arrive.

True the French are a if not THE force when on top of their game but I wonder whether that inconsistency will be forgotten anytime soon. The RWC was a case in point and even in the recent JRWC France had 2 very ordinary performances against England and the USA but stepped up and gave SA a big scare in what for them was a nothing-to-gain match. NickNZ highlighted some very real issues which won't be addressed because of the money involved in keeping the status-quo as is. France might even have bigger issues than SA.

stormer2010,
TRF_nickdnz

guys, you are awesome) You've solved this mystery for me, thanks a mil!

Any time. Thanks for saying we're awesome.

 

[Big Ewis]

thx for your replies. I mean, I'm not exactly just asking for a hug (well a little ) but I believe in the following:
wasted potential is the worst thing there could be. The "what if" factor is the most disgusting thing in human beings. A machine could never have that problem. A team of robots would win because they are necessarily the better team, and for no other reason, period.

Now, we did fine in Tests 1 and 3 in NZ, all three could've been blowouts I mean it's a highly experimental French side coming off its worst 6N ever, against the freaking AB's...AT HOME. But still, that's no excuse, we totally should've won the first, and there's no way in hell we should've produced that 2nd test. With the players at hand, we shouldn't lose 30 NIL to anyone, that's a given...we were soooo bad that game, my my...

Anyways..

 

[dragos03]

France will always be my favorite national team (after Romania ofc). Currently, I think France has great players but a **** coach. I wonder how many more defeats are needed until he gets sacked, so that the team can get back on track.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ very nice to read that, thx for the kind words

And you're right...so many ppl make a scapegoat out of the "head" of a problem. Everything goes wrong in a country, MUST be the president/government. Everything goes wrong in team, MUST be the coach.
But for both right now in France, to me it's clearly, clearly the "head" in deed.
I mean, just look at Italy. I'd LOVE for Brunel to coach France ffs !...

 

[Tony Manx]

I think the whole organisation o f French rugby is against them being truly internationally competitive with the clubs in control and the vast politics preventing the best coaches....Galthie and Brunel for instance wanting the job! PSA is not a very good coach but probably the best available and Lagisquet is still steeped in rugby as played 10 years ago and has failed to move on!

 

[Big Ewis]

^ I do believe there's a bit of that...most definitely.
It's all about teh monehs....that's the way of Man.

I think a nation like England has this pride that we just don't have in France where there's no way they'd allow for smt like this to happen; England will (almost) ALWAYS stay highly competitive, it's that important to them. They understand the importance of it all at the int'l level.

In France, we just had the misfortune of having those millionaires come in and spoil everything, and where's there's money there's power, simple as that - EVEN beyond country duties. It's amazing, insane in fact....but that's how it is.
As long as the top14 is almighty, the French national team WILL suffer...I just hope we can squeeze into the RWC Final again and maybe actually get this one for once !....

And yes, it's a little sad to just admit it unconditionally, but I do think we have to replace the old PSA fellow...

 

[Amobokoboko]

Besides the poor results France is still a very popular team in Belgium due to the fact that we're neighboring countries. We share the same language and you have Debaty in your team. If he would be able to play more it would be better for us.

It's true that the Top 14 bosses have a lot to say about the players but the competition is so nice to watch and follow. Every big rugby nation has it's ups and downs and I'm sure France will bounce back soon.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ yeh but we have UPS and DOWNS.

And Belgium is a country neighboring France ?! What are you on about ?!
Next thing you'll tell me the French constantly make jokes about the Belgians !...hah....preposterous !

 

[yarmolinsky]

And Belgium is a country neighboring France ?! What are you on about ?!
Next thing you'll tell me the French constantly make jokes about the Belgians !...hah....preposterous !

Nah... no worries. You still gonna have devoted audience in former USSR region. We are all true fans of France since 1812

Anyways French "downs" are something many rugby countries would dream of, so it's not really a trouble))

 

[gaston le gaff]

Maybe the the millionaires have have done injustice to the National team with foreign players in many teams in key positions, it is always going to be hard to have a brilliant French team, England have been experiencing this at footie for years. There is also the selection committee who have more or less the same powers as the coach so not always the best players are selected (eg Mickelak) the best coaches in France Noves, Toulouse and Galthie , Montpellier do not want the job at this present moment, and out spoken coaches like Lievremont are soon given P45 is they want their own way, because of the foreign key positions PSA has adopted a residency rule now to select players from other countries, SA, Fidji, Belgium etc.
What a lot of people dont understand outside of France is that club rugby is far more important than International rugby the Bouclier de Brennus is the supreme prize, ( you only have to ask Wilco) Week in week out we see some of the worlds best players in club rugby, the atmosphere in the grounds is brillianrt most 90% and + full every match, so if the National team is not doing brilliant and your club is doing well there is the usual shrug of the French shoulders and "c'est la vie" everyone talks about money and foreign players but i can assure you it is not the only reason why France has probably one of the best Championships in the world which is shown nearly world wide every week. It would be good that everything jelled between the clubs and the National team but that is never going to happen when the clubs pay the players wages and are are payed a pitance by the FFR for taking their players away for International duty. sorry about the length but needed to be said.

 

[Big Ewis]

hah, np.
Well I see your point...it will just forever (or as long as it continues) be ridiculous for me that anything could possibly supersede national duties for players.
Like, Picamoles or Dusautoir are Bleus before being Toulouse for me. Or rather *should be.

Rugby isn't like basketball where the NBA is all there is, and players go through 82 games of regular season+playoffs (knock-out tournament) and then an NBA-oriented off-season summer. When NBA players play international, it's fun to represent your country and all, but that's about it. It happens like every 2 yrs or wtvr.

In Rugby there's the 6N, two months of tests, RWC's, and other minor tournaments or int'l events. History books will only remember how many 6N ***les, GSlams, and RWC's we have, and certain memorable test match series. Those results are the only thing we have to say "France are good; bad", or anything in between.
We can't (but we will....) constantly blame the calendar and the Top 14 money and int'l players invasion of France...well it's a real reason obviously, but nobody likes asterisks and "ifs" and "buts".

It's absolutely fkn pathetic. In a normal world, we all play as many club games, each country makes it a priority for our guys to be as well prepared as possible and fresh, and then let's see the best of France against the best of England, NZ, Aus...etc..

And how is it even fkn POSSIBLE that we have such a (seemingly) terrible coach, who'll stay that long ?! He's our NATIONAL coach !! Out of the 67 million frenchies, we can't pick ONE guy who's truly professional ??!!!! :s

 

[Amobokoboko]

^ yeh but we have UPS and DOWNS.

And Belgium is a country neighboring France ?! What are you on about ?!
Next thing you'll tell me the French constantly make jokes about the Belgians !...hah....preposterous !

I don't get it Belgium is situated next to France. And it's a fact that lots of Belgians are supporting France during the 6 Nations.
P.s Belgians make lots of jokes about French as well.