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Proposed rule changes from the ARU

Mumbles119

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These proposed rule changes are initially just ideas for now. The ARU want to 'improve the spectacle' of the sport, and maybe run these new rules in their inaugural National Rugby Championship.

1. Reduce penalties and drop goals to 2 points.

2. Stop the clock whilst scrums are being set.

3. Increasing the policy of penalising infringements at the breakdown.

http://www.espn.co.uk/australia/rugby/story/219701.html

Idea 2 is a favourite of mine.

Idea 3 lacks any real thought, apart from maybe the Aussies are trying to stop McCaw through bureaucratic process rather than play (insert sarcasm and laughing smiley here)

Idea 1 has revealed that our own SigeSige real identify is Andrew Fagan

What are people's views on these proposed rule changes?
 

TRF_stormer2010

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It's criminal.




On a more serious note;

2 is not the problem; the problem is refs being not able to properly distinguish who is at fault when a scrum goes down.

3 of course is not a law change but I agree it would be great if it could be implemented correctly consistantly (here's looking at you, Davie boy). If so then the proposed change 1 wouldn't be necessary and I am loath to open that can of worms TBH.
 

ratsapprentice

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It's alright - they can do what they like with their own tournament.

This is the most elite competition that is trialling law variations AFAIK and the only televised one - so it will be cool to see the results on tape.
 

jonny24

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If penalties are worth less it may lead to more infringement because of the smaller punishment. Maybe not though. I would like to see more kicks for the corner to set up tries.

I'd agree with #2. When does the clock start again? Crouch?
 

ratsapprentice

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There has been endless discussion as to whether reducing the value of penalties with lead to more attacking intent.

Really the issue is that no-one has been able to provide evidence to support either side of the argument - this should do that.

I'm guessing the clock will start either when the ref calls to "set" or when the ball is put in.
 

dullonien

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1. I firmly believe that reducing penalties to 2 points will only lead to teams giving more penalties away, thus having a negative effect on the game. It could work if ref's were more prepared to hand out yellow cards for obvious offences in the 'red zone'.

I'd have no problem if drop goals were reduced to 2 points. It'd stop sides from taking pot shots at goal when they have a penalty advantage, thus promoting sides to take a chance and go for a try with the knowledge they can come back for a penalty. I don't understand why teams don't do this anyway, but reducing the value of drop goals could help. I don't mind the odd drop goal, but sometimes there's just way too many attempts made for my liking. It seems to have calmed down a lot though.

2. I wouldn't mind seeing the clock stopped for scrums, but I'd much prefer them to sort out the scrum properly instead. If the clock were stopped, there's a good chance ref's would just arse about even more, resetting scrum after scrum, which is still terrible for the viewers.

3. Quite vague, but makes sense. There's already a lot of penalising at the breakdown, often with very fine margins as to which side should have got the penalty, so not sure if it would necessarily reduce offences. It'd be nice if first the breakdown was reffed in the same manner in both the NH and SH .
 
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Jaguares

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I agree with #1, much has been spoken about it. It would be a nice opportunity to see if really improve the game
 

Big Ewis

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lol it's pretty hilarious how they literally want to take the scrum out of regulation time from the sport. "Well we thought of just removin' it altogether, that bizaahhh scrum thingy where the forwards kinda chahhge at each othah...but then we got a big reaction so we said okay okay, let's just stop the clock then ?"
Fk that. It's part of the game, clock stays.

On a slightly different note, as a biased French fan, I think by trying to sort out the scrums (we do get less resets) they've fkd up a craft that's been there for generations, and decades since the pro era. Mas said it himself: "I've been taught to do smt for 15 years and they change it in the blink of an eye one year..."

I've proposed the "penalty lowered to 2 points" myself before so I semi-agree with this. I'm cool with it staying 3 as well, but it does seem like *Team A scores a try and Team B connects on 2 penalties, score 5 to 6* is a bit questionable, unfair. A try should be worth more than two penalties, well that's debatable at least.

And the breakdown is the area that's always, always going to continue to pose problems and be the least fairly judged, because of how hard it is to referee. I think refs do a decent enough job overall, although there's the *guy not rolling away, but he can't roll away and still gets penalized*, or the *guy rucking on the side a bit no penalty*...there's a bunch of stuff but hey, refs are human.
 

William18

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Number 3 is ridiculous. Yellow cards are not an effective way of reducing infringements. FFS, there are currently about yellow cards in every game (never used to be) and the amount of penalties has stayed about the same. I think it is ridiculous that someone could receive a yellow card for being trapped at the bottom of a ruck and for nothing else. Yellow cards should be for moderately serious foul play and professional fouls. All #3 will do is disincentivise competing at the breakdown. Why would you compete when a little mistake will get you a yellow card? So they are going to basically remove the breakdown as a contest from the game. Good one.
 

LittleGuy

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I want to face whoever proposed these rule changes in a Hell in the Cell match at Wrestlemania 30.
 

Mumbles119

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1. I firmly believe that reducing penalties to 2 points will only lead to teams giving more penalties away, thus having a negative effect on the game. It could work if ref's were more prepared to hand out yellow cards for obvious offences in the 'red zone'.

I'd have no problem if drop goals were reduced to 2 points. It'd stop sides from taking pot shots at goal when they have a penalty advantage, thus promoting sides to take a chance and go for a try with the knowledge they can come back for a penalty. I don't understand why teams don't do this anyway, but reducing the value of drop goals could help. I don't mind the odd drop goal, but sometimes there's just way too many attempts made for my liking. It seems to have calmed down a lot though.

2. I wouldn't mind seeing the clock stopped for scrums, but I'd much prefer them to sort out the scrum properly instead. If the clock were stopped, there's a good chance ref's would just arse about even more, resetting scrum after scrum, which is still terrible for the viewers.

3. Quite vague, but makes sense. There's already a lot of penalising at the breakdown, often with very fine margins as to which side should have got the penalty, so not sure if it would necessarily reduce offences. It'd be nice if first the breakdown was reffed in the same manner in both the NH and SH .

Thank you Dullonien. Your post is the post I should have written, instead of the rubbish jokes.

I really think the breakdown is the biggest grey area. The officiating needs to be far more consistent, not more stringent.
 

Draggs

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Two is fine, I said something like this ages back. Would help the time wasting to end. Ref would whistle for time off on the collapse, and probably clock would restart either on ref signal or crouch.

One is awful teams would commit more infringements, three penalties being enough to pass a converted try is fair.
 

ratsapprentice

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The thing is though.... if these rules are applied for the NRC and they do turn out to be calamitous then there will be no need to speculate as to whether they might work because we will have definitive proof either way.
 

TRF_stormer2010

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It's alright - they can do what they like with their own tournament.

This is the most elite competition that is trialling law variations AFAIK and the only televised one - so it will be cool to see the results on tape.

There has been endless discussion as to whether reducing the value of penalties with lead to more attacking intent.

Really the issue is that no-one has been able to provide evidence to support either side of the argument - this should do that.

I'm guessing the clock will start either when the ref calls to "set" or when the ball is put in.

The South African varsity cup is quite big and gets televised on SA Mondays prime time on Super Sport.

They trialed and still do where a try and conversion is worth 5 and 3 and penalties 2 points. Oddly enough it has lead to greater speed, better passing and more attacking intent from our juniors. The key though is to dish out yellows quite easily for opposition killing the ball. It has worked quite well ITO speeding the game up.

The other thing I liked is that captains get a TMO referral per half. If they use it and an incorrect call gets overturned they retain the referral. If not, they lose it so that what you get is that captains generally only use it when they just about know there was shenanigans in the lead up to an opposition try. So you don't get UNNECESSARY hold ups. The refs tend to make calls on tries or not as it happens which on the whole makes games shorter compared to now where every bloody try gets sent upstairs by the refs.
 

ratsapprentice

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I hadn't realised it was televised.

Because the NRC (should be) a more elite competition then the results will get more exposure, and be more relevant to the professional game.
 

TRF_stormer2010

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I hadn't realised it was televised.

Because the NRC (should be) a more elite competition then the results will get more exposure, and be more relevant to the professional game.

Certainly it should.

The varisty cup does get attendences larger than half of the SR games though. What I was getting at is I just think the IRB should sit up and take note of the SAVC; as a product of rugby it is brilliant and addresses the things the Aussie changes seeks to. I wouldn't do it now of course but maybe the year after the RWC just as an experiment to see how it translates to the top level.
 
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