Question for the Kiwi posters

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by BobbyM, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. BobbyM

    BobbyM Academy Player

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    Hi all,

    I’m in a protracted debate with my kiwi father (I was born in Scotland, and we’re both Pakeha) about whether England crossing the half way line during the haka was “disrespectful”. To let you know where I stand, I think what England did was breaking a minor rule that was brought in by world rugby following the ‘07 nearly brawl against France. Was it a bit of a 2 fingers af world rugby? Probably. Was it “disrespectful” to the haka itself? No in my view.

    What is the view of the Maori and wider NZ community on this?
     
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  3. OneBlackEye

    OneBlackEye Academy Player

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    No way.

    The half way thing is all World Rugby.
     
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  4. TheOvalBall

    TheOvalBall First XV

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    In my view, England's response was a passive one. The V should've been an Arrow head.
     
  5. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler First XV

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    Nah, it was paper to the haka's rock
     
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  6. OneBlackEye

    OneBlackEye Academy Player

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    Also, before this descends into chaos, I'm pretty sure there is no rule you have to do anything during the haka.

    People complain it's not fair you just have to stand there and watch it. I'm pretty sure you don't. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

    If they players felt it was unfair they could always just go practice drills under the posts.
     
  7. ncurd

    ncurd International

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    Don't think the players give a duck about being fined to be honest.

    I think the only rule is they can't cross the halfway line which is what they got fined for.
     
  8. The Oggmonster

    The Oggmonster First XV

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    I wonder if this would get a £2k fine.

     
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  9. Goodey

    Goodey Bench Player

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    Yeah the fine is nothing to do with respect, they don’t want players advancing over halfway because it can mess with the shots the broadcasters want.
     
  10. Zapphod

    Zapphod Academy Player

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    I think there is a little more to it than that I suspect there is also an element of safety involved, I am fine with what happened but I would draw the line at physical contact between the two teams during it.
    What I find interesting is why the NH has an issue with NZ doing a Haka but never mentions any of the other Pacific countries.
     
  11. TheOvalBall

    TheOvalBall First XV

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  12. TheOvalBall

    TheOvalBall First XV

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    How's this for a comment on the video ?

    "If England responded with a Morris dance, that would be incredible"

    :D :D
     
  13. Goodey

    Goodey Bench Player

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    That joke's so old it's got other jokes growing on it.
     
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  14. themole25

    themole25 First XV

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    they'd have to play some of the other pacific island countries, hey oh

    as an american, kieran read being in the front of the haka just looks so cringeworthy. I know it's a lot more respectful but if you look at the haka when it first started it's insulting. Imagine AJ McGinty leading a Native American war dance, it wouldn't fly.

    That being said, if country's are allowed to respond with their own cultural dance, I don't see why England is getting fined.
     
  15. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Wasn’t the line used as a barrier to prevent situations where the opposition or the AB’s move towards each other and make contact? Like when Jonah Lomu and Cobus Wiese were basically rubbing heads against one another.
     
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  16. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose First XV

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    It would be cringey because the US at all levels of the politics and society has not come to terms with its history and has almost no representation in sports from people of so called 'native American' ancestry. None of that is the case with New Zealand and polynesians / Maori. Almost a quarter of New Zealand's population is Maori or of other polynesian extraction, so it is still a big part of their modern culture.

    And this is coming from someone who goes and makes a cup of tea when the haka comes on.
     
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  17. OneBlackEye

    OneBlackEye Academy Player

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    I don't think anyone is using American society as a yard stick for showing respect to other cultures. Or anything really.

    They were fined for crossing half way. Not many people agree with the rule but that's why.
     
  18. Chief Pete

    Chief Pete Academy Player

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    Pretty sure a few years ago a team, think it was Australia turned their back on the haka, surely this is the ultimate insult..
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
  19. Jabby

    Jabby First XV

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    Read isn't leading it, TJ is, Read is just at the front because hes the captain, lead form the front an all

    I have no issue with it, as ive said before we always grew doing competing Haka before a game, Rather than the whole "he got confused" thing i wish they had just come out and said "we decided any fine would be worth it, yes, it was deliberate"

    The only time i've found it disrespectful was turning their backs or just going and running warm ups in goal...but in saying that, it's still any teams right, might be a choice to be "disrespectful", try and upset the AB's...everyone just do what you want...but own what you do
     
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  20. themole25

    themole25 First XV

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    i mean, in the one sport native americans play, we have them play as their own national team.

    but when the haka was started, there weren't maori in the all blacks. It's exactly the same as if Americans started doing a dance now. There's also the issue with which dance you choose because indigenous americans were not a monolithic group.w

    the comparison isn't between american culture today and new zealand culture today, it's between american culture today and when the all blacks started doing the haka. That happened well before new zealand started to make their announcements

    I'm not going to tell New Zealand to not do the haka, it's just really cringe for someone who comes to rugby later on in life.
    1. duh

    2. they were fined for crossing their own 10m line, which is the rule.

    It's almost as if I used the words I used on purpose
     
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  21. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    What sport is that out of interest?

    I agree about the haka being cringy and I've been watching rugby since before I can remember! I'd love it if the opposition started doing passing drills or got fluids on board during it, it'd stop being an issue.
     
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