• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Referee decisions during World Cup

Which Tyler

First XV
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
4,748
Reaction score
1,633
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Then either I didn't understand your original post, or you don't understand that pdf
Accumulation of Yellow Cards/Citing Commissioner Warnings
All Players will be regarded as having commenced the Tournament without any yellow cards or Citing Commissioner Warnings on their record for the purposes of totting up during the Tournament
So, in relation to yellow cards accumulating to an automatic citing, they're (temporarily) reset.
In terms of considering a players precious disciplinary history as mitigation or otherwise - no mention in the section titled "Accumulation of yellow cards / citing commissioner warnings" (page 4, paragraph 1).

However, the paragraph just above, on "citing hearing" states (page 3, paragraph 4, and indeed 6, which looks identical, at a glance).
Citing Hearing
If a Player is cited he will have a hearing before an independent Disciplinary Committee, ordinarily within 48 hours of the conclusion of the Match. The Disciplinary Committee will review the available evidence (including footage of the incident from various angles in addition to other evidence such as medical reports as appropriate to the case). The Player will be given an opportunity to present his case and has the right to be represented. The Disciplinary Committee will first determine if the Player did commit an act of Foul Play which would have warranted a red card and, if so, what sanction, if any, from the World Rugby Recommended Table of Sanctions is appropriate in the circumstances taking into account the seriousness of the offending (e.g. intentional or reckless, gravity, injury), any aggravating features (e.g. poor disciplinary record or the need for a deterrent) and any off-field mitigating features (e.g. the Player’s admission of his conduct and good record).
Emphasis mine
 
Last edited:

scotty507

First XV
Joined
Jun 14, 2016
Messages
2,369
Reaction score
508
Club or Nation

Exeter

Aki red pretty clear red. This new frame work has come in but it seems alot of these reds were reds well before this? How many reds dod we see last world cup? Is it a dramatic rise?
 

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance
Staff member
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
100,000,799
Reaction score
6,171
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Sale

I think this world cup matched the highest number of reds quite early on, so we're way ahead now
 

Yoshimitsu

Academy Player
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
367
Reaction score
247
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

England

I think there's a real issue with reds only becoming reds when the TMO is used to confirm the evidence thereof. I'm not here to claim whether that is right or wrong but the TMO is now taking centre stage. Lets take the Lavanini example. On the field of play Nigel Owens (one of the world's best refs) call "no foul play, play on" the TMO armed with super slow motion and multiple angles intervenes and suggests that foul play has occurred.

Refs are very keen to defer decisions to the TMO and as soon at that happens the framework begins to apply. Any direct contact to the head = Yellow at minimum. Without mitigation it = red..................
 

ncurd

International
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
8,321
Reaction score
2,110
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

The thing is most the reds we've seen have been reds for some time very little to do with the new framework.

As I noted earlier on I think I've seen more head hits this world cup than in any previous incarnation. Which is madness when you consider they are looking more closely rather than less.
 

Which Tyler

First XV
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
4,748
Reaction score
1,633
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

The thing is most the reds we've seen have been reds for some time very little to do with the new framework.

As I noted earlier on I think I've seen more head hits this world cup than in any previous incarnation. Which is madness when you consider they are looking more closely rather than less.
Exactly this.
I don't recall a single red this year that shouldn't have been red in 2015 most should have been red in 2011 or 1991 - even if they would have been more likely to get away with it.

Yellows are a different matter on this, as mitigation that would (probably) have reduced it to a penalty now only reduce to a yellow.

Hitting someone in the head has been illegal in rugby since I started watching in 1987. There's just less leeway, less mitigation, and more scrutiny these days. Laws have changed for hitting someone at the top of the shoulder, on taking someone in the air, on lifting in the tackle etc, but the head has always been officially off limits. It's just being done more with less chance of getting away with it.
 
Last edited:

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,306
Reaction score
1,216
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

I think there's a real issue with reds only becoming reds when the TMO is used to confirm the evidence thereof. I'm not here to claim whether that is right or wrong but the TMO is now taking centre stage. Lets take the Lavanini example. On the field of play Nigel Owens (one of the world's best refs) call "no foul play, play on" the TMO armed with super slow motion and multiple angles intervenes and suggests that foul play has occurred.

Refs are very keen to defer decisions to the TMO and as soon at that happens the framework begins to apply. Any direct contact to the head = Yellow at minimum. Without mitigation it = red..................
Isn’t the directive to confirm with the TMO and AR’s before sanctioning? I’m sure I read somewhere after the EOYT last year that the referee has to consult with the other’s before sanctioning.

also there were a few red cards that the referee didn’t see in real time, and the TMO informed them of foul play. Which has been a directive for a while now.

The red card in the SA vs. Canada for example, was spotted by the AR, not the referee, and the TMO informed the referee of potential foul play.

anyways, I don’t care how they do it, just as long as the right decision is made...
 

Larksea

First XV
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Messages
3,187
Reaction score
376
Country Flag

New Zealand

I think its OK for the IRB to change the rules and regulations. Its important to the evolution of the game.
But doing it Day one of a RWC is completely fricken stupid in so many ways.
The game is always evolving and changing, after rules or the application of rules change it takes time for the players and referees to adjust.
Really, there shouldn't be any changes to the rules application of the rules of management of the referees in the 6 months or so leading upto a WC. So all teams can go in knowing where the lines are drawn.
I think as it is right now the referees are more likely to decide the fate of WC games than ever before.
 

Which Tyler

First XV
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
4,748
Reaction score
1,633
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

Just out of interest. When was the last time that a direct hit to the head without mitigation wasn't a red card offence?

As it is, I can't remember a time when so many players were knowingly committing red card offences, let alone so many are skirting so close to a red card offence that it's essentially out of their hands.
 

Reiser99

First XV
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
2,665
Reaction score
830
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

Apparently Moriarty's swinging arm to thread was only yellow wtf
For me it's right on the border.

Contact with head: Yes
Mitigation: No

The question is force. It didn't look the worse but then the French players chin shudders from the hit. With another ref it could have been red.
 

OwenPB

Academy Player
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
57
Reaction score
13
Country Flag

Ireland

Club or Nation

Rouen

What's going on with the total lack of offside officiating this WC?
That & clearing out at the ruck have been ignored.
 

Reiser99

First XV
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
2,665
Reaction score
830
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Leicester

What's going on with the total lack of offside officiating this WC?
That & clearing out at the ruck have been ignored.
Thing is World Rugby have periods of focusing on certain rules because if you police too strictly it kills the game and especially at the world cup there is enough issues around the rules. I can see some new ref directives after the world cup.
 

The_Blindside

International
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
5,786
Reaction score
1,065
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

British Irish Lions

So England v NZ likely to be reffed by Garces, Peyper or Owens.

Wales v SA - Garces or Barnes.

lf these 4 are considered WR’s top 4 refs.
 
Last edited:

themole25

First XV
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
2,632
Reaction score
719
Club or Nation

La Rochelle

So historically the semi finalist and finalist referees don’t always get games at the quarterfinals. The only non quarterfinal referee I see getting a semifinal is raynaul.

I think garces and raynaul get the semi finals and the final would go to: (in order)
1. Barnes
2. Owens
3. Peyper

I bet world rugby wants England to lose since the gap between Barnes and the rest is huge imo.
 

The_Blindside

International
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
5,786
Reaction score
1,065
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

British Irish Lions

2015 RWC

Owens reffed NZ v France
Wales v SA was reffed by Barnes
Arg v Ireland was reffed by Garces
Aust v Scotland by Joubert

semis were reffed by Garces (SA v NZ) and Barnes (Arg v Aus).

Owens reffing the final.

got to wonder if WR will be sentimental and give Barnes the final if England don’t make it. Or Owens if Wales don’t. As this tournament will be their last; certainly Barnes’ last one. There’s always the case that Owens reffed the last one so shouldn’t get two in a row. But then it didn’t stop Andre Watson getting picked for the 1999 and 2003 finals.

The other choice would be Garces for the final as France are out.

Peyper couldn’t ref the final if SA make it
 
Last edited:

ncurd

International
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
8,321
Reaction score
2,110
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

I don't know how Barnes and Peyper don't ref the semis. I bet we get ******* Owens though.
 

The_Blindside

International
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
5,786
Reaction score
1,065
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

British Irish Lions

So historically the semi finalist and finalist referees don’t always get games at the quarterfinals. T.
Joubert reffed a QF, SF and the final back in 2011.
 

The_Blindside

International
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
5,786
Reaction score
1,065
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

British Irish Lions

I don't know how Barnes and Peyper don't ref the semis. I bet we get ******* Owens though.
I suspect we get Garces or Peyper; Barnes the choice to ref Wales v SA.
 
Top