Return of the Heineken Cup

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Not really going to make a material difference, but the ECPR Champions Cup is returning to the name Heineken Cup as the prime sponsor!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm surprised Heineken want to put money into it considering they can't even advertise in France

 

[saulan]

I'm surprised Heineken want to put money into it considering they can't even advertise in France

Is this a "You can't advertise alcohol in this country" rule?

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I'm surprised Heineken want to put money into it considering they can't even advertise in France

Really? Was that the case before?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is this a "You can't advertise alcohol in this country" rule?

Yup, can't advertise alcohol on TV.
When Wales were sponsored by Brains SA (a brand of beer) they had to use different logos on their shirts when playing in France (one year it said "BRAWN" instead of Brains, and another it said "Try ESSAI", essay meaning "Try" in French, and also being the second half of their name - the clever buggers)

Really? Was that the case before?

Yup, the Heineken banners were all logoless:

 

[saulan]

Yup, can't advertise alcohol on TV.
When Wales were sponsored by Brains SA (a brand of beer) they had to use different logos on their shirts when playing in France (one year it said "BRAWN" instead of Brains, and another it said "Try ESSAI", essay meaning "Try" in French, and also being the second half of their name - the clever buggers)

Does it still get called the Heineken Cup in their articles? I mean at the end of the day, everyone in France who watches rugby will know it's the Heineken Cup, just that everyone in South Africa will know that Super Rugby in New Zealand is called Investec Super Rugby, because its plastered on all their fields.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's just the 'H' Cup in France. I'd say it's more aimed at the UK and Ireland too, the French don't drink beer like we do and the Heineken Cup was an iconic name recognised by people who didn't follow rugby and was a far better brand than the Champions Cup.

Heineken are surely doing this because they were more profitable as the name sponsor, whether they will be now is up for debate considering the rise in craft beers and rugby fans being the exact type of people to indulge in those and whether the identity of the tournament that was sucked out of it through rebranding by McCafferty and co. can be brought back to its previously mainstream levels. I'd be skeptical on the second one anyway.

 

[saulan]

Heineken are surely doing this because they were more profitable as the name sponsor, whether they will be now is up for debate considering the rise in craft beers and rugby fans being the exact type of people to indulge in those and whether the identity of the tournament that was sucked out of it through rebranding by McCafferty and co. can be brought back to its previously mainstream levels. I'd be skeptical on the second one anyway.

South Africa could be another angle for them as well. Heineken has always advertised quite heavily in SA for the Champions League. Maybe there is hope as well that we are watching this now that we have Pro 14 teams, and also with the possibility of us joining the tournament at some point. At the very least I noticed the Champions Cup getting more attention on this end, and it seems to be bigger in Europe as well. Maybe they want to be seen as the brand for the major European sports tournaments in football and rugby.

 

[Amiga500]

Well done McCafferty you greedy f**kwit.

Your arrogance, stupidity and ineptitude only become more and more written in stone for when this whole sorry saga has concluded.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Well done McCafferty you greedy f**kwit.

Your arrogance, stupidity and ineptitude only become more and more written in stone for when this whole sorry saga has concluded.

What has it got to do with McCafferty and why us it a bad thing?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What has it got to do with McCafferty and why us it a bad thing?

Because now people can't blame the English for it not being called the Heineken cup.


Apparently the name (which is now the same) is far more important that teams qualifying on merit and not being given a free ride into top tier Europe

 

[Fuzzy du Plessis]

I never thought I'd see the day when so many people are outright celebrating the fact that a sporting tournament has a named sponsor. I wonder if there'd be so much joy over the Altrad Scaffolding Rugby World Cup as there is over this, or if it's just bitterness over the disagreement and subsequent restructure of the old tournament.

 

[Amiga500]

What has it got to do with McCafferty and why us it a bad thing?

He is trying to screw the rest of Europe over rather than clean his own house.

If things continue as they are, the English premiership teams are all in danger of collapsing under their own debt (exception: The Chiefs). McCafferty's only approach to fixing this is to try and grab more money from others - not put robust rules in place to stop his own lot spending themselves into trouble.

 

[smartcooky]

Because now people can't blame the English for it not being called the Heineken cup.


Apparently the name (which is now the same) is far more important that teams qualifying on merit and not being given a free ride into top tier Europe

Which of course, never really happened anyway

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Which of course, never really happened anyway

Did they not?
Because I definitely remember pro12 sides not having to qualify and being guaranteed a spot in the HEC just by being from a specific country

 

[saulan]

Did they not?
Because I definitely remember pro12 sides not having to qualify and being guaranteed a spot in the HEC just by being from a specific country

I think you are referring to rules in ~2013 era:

• Ireland: 3 teams, based on regular-season finish in Pro12
• Wales: 3 teams, based on regular-season finish in Pro12
• Italy and Scotland: 2 teams each, based on participation in Pro12 (as there are only 2 from each nation)

They had to qualify, but 8 out of the 12 teams from the Pro12 made it in. In some cases, the Irish wouldn't have to qualify, but that would be because one of the Irish teams won the tournament in the previous year, which would mean they go into the tournament as the previous year's winner and their country got given an additional slot (so all 4 from Pro12 would go through).

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No, they didn't have to qualify.
An Italian side and a Scottish side were guaranteed top tier rugby regardless of where they finished, they just had to beat the other Italian/Scottish side.
It wasn't merit based, The Italians, especially, were a joke.

 

[Amiga500]

No, they didn't have to qualify.
An Italian side and a Scottish side were guaranteed top tier rugby regardless of where they finished, they just had to beat the other Italian/Scottish side.
It wasn't merit based,

Even for you... talk about wrapping yourself up in contradictions.

They didn't have to qualify. Wasn't merit based.

They just had to beat the other team(s) from their country.

Which apparently isn't merit based and doesn't equate to (a form of) qualifying.


I agree in that it didn't see the best teams at the top table. But that wasn't the entire point of the competition.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Even for you... talk about wrapping yourself up in contradictions.

They didn't have to qualify. Wasn't merit based.

They just had to beat the other team(s) from their country.

Which apparently isn't merit based and doesn't equate to (a form of) qualifying.


I agree in that it didn't see the best teams at the top table. But that wasn't the entire point of the competition.

It clearly wasn't merit based in the sense that they didn't have to be better than everyone else in the league. Basically just a quota system, which is clearly not based on merit

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sigh. You know exactly what I meant.


It's all elementary anyway, we now have a merit based European comp with clubs getting more money, way better broadcasting (No sky, games on terrestrial TV) and even have the old sponsors/name back (which, for some reason, was a sticking point for some people).

I agree in that it didn't see the best teams at the top table. But that wasn't the entire point of the competition.