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RFU Should Buy Out 4 Premiership Clubs

OldCoach

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Sep 27, 2011
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England
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Leicester
The recent poor performance of English Clubs exemplifies to contradiction that exists in English professional rugby. Unless England Squad players are centrally contracted and centrally managed England will be perennial underperformers (performance being a balance of resources and success levels. Most players in the world and just one RWC). Transofrmational change can only exist with transformational action. So here's the recipe

RFU creates 4 regional clubs with centrally contracted players and joins Pro14. Players are managed to peak for European Cup and England calendar. Aviva premiership becomes level 2 for England's top players. RFU should buy Newcastle, Exeter or Bath, HArlequins and a Midlands club.
Let's here your views
 
No thanks,
The clubs outdate the RFU, I don't want that flushed down the toilet because we had an off year in Europe.

Creating franchises would be a disaster, IMO. I certainly wouldn't give a **** about a Midlands, or Northern, franchise. Why would I when the club I've been supporting since I was a kid is still playing, probably at the same time as well.
 
The recent poor performance of English Clubs exemplifies to contradiction that exists in English professional rugby. Unless England Squad players are centrally contracted and centrally managed England will be perennial underperformers (performance being a balance of resources and success levels. Most players in the world and just one RWC).
RFU creates 4 regional clubs with centrally contracted players and joins Pro14. Players are managed to peak for European Cup and England calendar. Aviva premiership becomes level 2 for England's top players. RFU should buy Newcastle, Exeter or Bath, HArlequins and a Midlands club.
Let's here your views

what a ghastly idea. The English clubs will bounce back. Saracens have won last 2 ***les. They could very well win it again next May.
 
Im not even English and that sounds like a terrible idea. One year of under-performance does not mean English clubs are weak - it just happens sometimes. There were no Pro12 teams in the knockouts 2 years ago yet look at us now, 3 home QFs. There are plenty of world class clubs with world class players in England, the current double champions being just an example. No need to worry my friend.
 
Can see no demand welsh and Scottish regions are a shining example how this works.Not.
Fair play to Ireland who have made it work.
Sold out grounds in super rugby ? poor idea for English Rugby all it would do is get a team or 2 extra in QFs of H cup.
Oh we has 5 a couple of years ago.
National team at 2 in world.
If it is isn't busted why change?
 
Just on player numbers this is wrong, but I do believe in franchises, as no relegation creates more positive rugby; teams in mid table the only way to up gates is to try to play attractive rugby.

Also need better salary cap policing to ensure fair play across all teams.

If there was to be any amalgamation with the Celtic teams, then move the Italians to a Continental League with the Fench clubs, and have a British & Irish League.

How about the current 10 Celtic teams, plus 12 AP teams, then add in Bristol, Yorkshire, South Yorkshire,(Doncaster & Rotherham), London Scottish, (supported by SRU), Caledonia and London Welsh (supported by WRU).

Run it like the NFL, with a Celtic Conference, 10 Celtic teams plus London Irish, London Scottish and London Welsh and Caledonia and an Anglo Conference of the remaining teams.

Each conference is split into 3 regional divisions, Irish, Welsh, Scottish, North, West, South

Teams play a season of 16 matches over 17 weeks, followed by play offs.

The top 12, 6 from each conference, would join the top 8 continental teams in the European Cup the following season.

This would also be a shortened version, with matches only payed home or away, followed by play offs.

Overall this would reduce player workload by 9 matches per year, just from these two competitions, with the Anglo Welsh also being removed, giving a total reduction of 15 matches.
 
Can see no demand welsh and Scottish regions are a shining example how this works.Not.
Fair play to Ireland who have made it work.
Sold out grounds in super rugby ? poor idea for English Rugby all it would do is get a team or 2 extra in QFs of H cup.
Oh we has 5 a couple of years ago.
National team at 2 in world.
If it is isn't busted why change?
Ireland made it work because they already had historic provinces to go to, we don't really have that in England.
If you split it into counties you'd just end up with more 48 sides, if you tried to weedle that down to a leagues worth you'd get sides like Leicester....shire, Northampton...shire, Gloucester....shire, Exeter.
Hmm, sounds familiar :p
 
Central contracts or some way for the national side to control the workload of players at clubs I can agree with. Some maximum number of hours a player can do in total in a year and/or over a set period might be an idea too. Franchises and the RFU buying up clubs? Nope.
 
No, just no.

The opposite should happen.

Club rugby should be exactly that. CLUB rugby. Ban central contracts, franchises etc.

Introduce salary caps that are the same for all 3 European leagues and Financial fair play to prevent teams just running up tens of millions of debt and losing more every year.
 
Disagree with the RFU buying clubs but the Central contracts option should be looked at.

I am in a minority of one with this I know but I don't believe the players in the current EPS are not coping very well with what appears to be a very intensive England set up and their club commitments. Eddie Jones is a great coach but he is taking his pound of flesh from the players and I can see the clubs start to kick back if this continues to happen.

If the players are on central contracts then Eddie can get on with conquering the world and the clubs can have the funds freed up to increase their squads.
 
Central contracts or some way for the national side to control the workload of players at clubs I can agree with. Some maximum number of hours a player can do in total in a year and/or over a set period might be an idea too. Franchises and the RFU buying up clubs? Nope.

This. I'm tempted to say that the ship sailed 28 years ago thanks to Will Carling's 57 "friends", but money talks. If the RFU were prepared to stump up the cash, maybe they could exert a greater influence over the clubs' behaviour.

The original post strikes me as a massive overreaction to a poor return on a competition played over a short format, hence high variance (Exeter finding themselves in a pool with containing three current league toppers plus the competition favourites, the bounce of a ball in Toulon, a Haskell red card and a match of a lifetime for Danny Care). Rugby Pass ran an excellent article on this rebutting some of the oft trotted out cliches.

Furthermore, the idea strikes me as the usual level of institutionalised thinking from blazers. Why is four sides picked on? Because of the old divisions? Because that's what the Irish and Welsh do? Or because significant thought has been given to what the best number would be?

On a side note, I remember Eddie Jones commenting on what a positive it was for English rugby when the clubs put in a good showing last year. I'd be interested to hear him put a positive spin on this season's outcome! How important is it for players to be at the sharp end of Europe? On the one hand, it's only a maximum of three games and three games that battered bodies could do without. On the other, the near test level of the semis and final last year must stand the players in good stead for international rugby.
 
The RFU is wealthy enough and big enough to probably do 10 clubs or region's in the way Ireland do their 4 provinces.

Sod it just do all 12, remove promotion and relegation and leave the exiles to fend for themselves in the championship...
 
The RFU is wealthy enough and big enough to probably do 10 clubs or region's in the way Ireland do their 4 provinces.

Sod it just do all 12, remove promotion and relegation and leave the exiles to fend for themselves in the championship...
Does it need to be all or nothing? What about 6 franchises spread around geographically (incl Newcastle), protected from relegation but with whatever additional conditions from RFU around player selection & management... and top up the league with 6 genuine clubs based on merit.

Or keep promotion/relegation, but slow it down. Add a promotion/relegation play-off instead of automatic relegation. Lessen the risk a bit, but still leave some meaning in the championship.
 
Franchise rugby? Hello Milton Keynes Dons RUFC lol!

Being serious, I would expand the Aviva to 14 teams with two teams relegated to the Championship. The Championship would have two promotion places (one for automatic promotion in position #1 and #2 to #5 would participate in playoff games.
 
Franchise rugby? Hello Milton Keynes Dons RUFC lol!

Being serious, I would expand the Aviva to 14 teams with two teams relegated to the Championship. The Championship would have two promotion places (one for automatic promotion in position #1 and #2 to #5 would participate in playoff games.

Agree with this, would be good to see Aviva Premiership expanded to 14 teams, would make Championship better with more to play for and no doubt improve their standards on and off the pitch as they try to reach Premiership level.
 
As ever, i just think people are thinking about this all wrong.
It's far too late for franchise rugby in England, that horse bolted a long time ago. It's also entirely unnecessary.
What we need is fewer, higher quality matches at the top, with a more pyramidal structure at the top of the game, concentrating the talent a bit more, and preferably, decreasing the number of overseas mercenaries (thought that's not too bad these last few years).

IMO, decrease the Prem to 10 teams, 5 get EPRC places.
Probably shrink the champ to 10 (we can sustain a good 20 fully pro clubs IMO)
Increase promo/release to the Championship to 1 automatic and another play off.
Ring-fence the top two leagues (with specific criteria to eject underperformers or include ambitious semi-pro.s)
MSCs for both leagues, but looser than the current, but with additional requirements for admin etc. Same salary cap for both.
TV deal is for both leagues.
RFU academies for all.
Expand the AWC, by adding the champ teams. 6 pools of 4, orthodox fixture list; knock-out stages to include cup, plate and shield, so that everyone gets KO experience*. Players only eligible if they played less than X minutes in the previous season.
This gives us 6 pool + 3 KO weekends to fit into the 10 week international window. We've bought that by reducing the league by 4 weekends and helped player welfare with that game time limit for the domestic cup - I'd also have a maximum number of minutes for every player anyway.

Clubs go from 22+2, 6+3, 4+2 (32-39) matches to 18+2, 6+3, 6+3* (31-38) matches, so the loss of 1 home game, higher quality in the league, greater variety of opposition, especially for the less experienced players, higher quality Championship, with a chance of giant slaying in the cup, and a guarantee that everyone gets a QF*.
Increasing the quality of the champ, along with inclusion in the TV deal (and the direct cash and subsequent sponsorship and growth opportunities), increased promotion opportunities, giant-slayi g options, and that ring-fence meams that this shouldn't be too much a case of turkeys voting for Christmas.

For the champ teams, without European rugby, you could argue that theyd be lacking match numbers. You could also argue that this is better for player welfare, allows them to rest ahead of their giant-slaying opportunities, and allow for smaller squads... But I suspect that wouldn't fly, and we'd need to reinstate the B&I cup or something.
Alternatively, increase the champ to 14 (just the 2 dropping down being added), which negates that league, but would mean throwing the Welsh out of the domestic cup (oh well, nevermind), but does count against improving the quality of the champ. I vacilate on this each time I think about it, and I guess it would ultimately depend on how many champ clubs want to go fully pro and have (reduced) MSCs applied.
Of course, you could get a situation where, too many champ clubs would choose not to go fully pro; in which case I'd argue for the RFU getting involved and "assisting" 1-3 clubs in union-poor areas, say Carlisle, Blackburn or Canterbury
 
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The idea in the original post just smacks of "it's working for the Irish so we must copy it" - not sure that's the way to go about justifying such a seismic change.

All the following pots really just go to show how difficult implementing change can be - we all have a different view on how to go about it and what's best.

Personally I don't think the club structure needs changing and I'm a big fan of promotion/relegation at league level. Any decisions based on one poor year at European level feels like a knee jerk reaction.
But we do need to protect elite level players IMHO and central contracts feel like the best way to achieve that.

Also fair play to Which above, that's some detailed analysis right there
 
Alsofair play to Which above, that's some detailed analysis right there
It helps that my proposal has been evolving for about 12 years, in various rugby boards and club bars - even wrote Rob Andrew a letter when he first took up the RFU role, a very early draft of this thought process.
 

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