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Romain Poite's credibility

RichardRheeder

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Firstly congratulations to Argentina on an historic win for them, we were outplayed and even with the refereeing mistakes, we wouldn't have pulled this one through.

My actual point of making this thread is regarding Romain Poite's performance once again at international level, the amount of controversial calls at critical moments is getting outrageous. He has once again made unbelievable calls against South Africa at international level that level on blatant outrageous. Any comments on his performance?
 
Don't think you'll get many dissenting voices. We're all on the same page here.
 
Completely agree.
I normally hate people ragging on the ref, especially after a loss, but today was just ridiculous.
He's supposed to be one of the top refs in the world, in a world cup year.
It'd be embarassing to see that display in a second tier club comp.
 
Just a heads up, if you're the losing side and have an issue with the ref, this is how you write about it and not come across bitter. Very gracious.

On the topic at hand, agreed. Seen him perform badly across many competitions. Issue is if teams are playing in styles that suit his vision of the rules he does allow nice flowing rugby. Not often and biases against other teams though.
 
Wasn't watching the game critically, and I won't comment on anything other than what I'm about to, because I didn't watch the game closely enough to be accurate.

But - regarding Imhoff's third try - although he completely went against the precedent set by modern reffing, I like the fact that he gave it.

Modern rugby has been inching (forging, recently) towards NFL style breaks in play - stoppages shouldn't last as long as they do, and sides should be ready to play at all times.
The Boks' lack of awareness is symptomatic of the absurdly long breaks in play that we have become far too accustomed to.
 
JdV specifically asked if he could go and talk to his team, as Poite said they were on a warning.
As he walked over to the team/they gathered under the posts, Argentina took the quick tap and scored.

I genuinely can't see how that's fair in any way. You can say the Boks should have been more aware, but when the referee has said they've got time to talk....
 
There was 41 secs between the whistle for the original penalty and time being blown back on... plenty of time for JDV to tell his players to stop whatever he was told to stop.

p9t74.jpg


A penalty is a penalty - not a ****ing waterbreak.
 
Firstly the topic of this thread wad not to point out any mistakes that might have affected the score negatively, as this Bok side would've never been able to claw their way back from any deficit today; but on the point of Imhoff's third try, did nobody notice the amount of support/medical staff still on the pitch when they took the penalty quick? Or the fact that there wasn't even a touch judge close to the corner when the try was scored? What if Argentina had decided to play to the right and not the left? Would he have called play back in that situation? As the medical staff would've then been in the middle of the action.
 
To steer the questions towards the point I'm trying to make - why were they on there anyway?

Because it was a penalty?
 
To steer the questions towards the point I'm trying to make - why were they on there anyway?

Because it was a penalty?

I agree with what you're saying, why allow them on there in the first place if it was just a penalty? And if in his mind he had decided to allow stoppage for an injury, why allow play to continue with interruptions still on the field?
 
Well done Argentina. Imhoff absolutely brilliant. Boks were a rudderless shambles.
Romain Poite very poor game. Can't remember when I last saw such a poor performance by an international ref. Think he needs to go for some coaching of his own.
 
No, I don't think his credibility is specially in trouble here. He makes mistakes for sure but no more than most international referees I see.

For example: first argie try is pass forward, but today no referee is going to call that, because most of tier 1 team do it. You can see the same try almost every game.

The truth is that the third Imhoff try was ok. He calls time on right after the false start from Cubelli and Argentina simply does not start because their captain is on the floor- they're deciding.

Then JMH sees that JdV has taken his players assuming that they are kicking -points or line out- and goes for it and gets a try. End of story. Next time stay focus, which has been a problem for saffas all game long.
 
No, I don't think his credibility is specially in trouble here. He makes mistakes for sure but no more than most international referees I see.

For example: first argie try is pass forward, but today no referee is going to call that, because most of tier 1 team do it. You can see the same try almost every game.

The truth is that the third Imhoff try was ok. He calls time on right after the false start from Cubelli and Argentina simply does not start because their captain is on the floor- they're deciding.

Then JMH sees that JdV has taken his players assuming that they are kicking -points or line out- and goes for it and gets a try. End of story. Next time stay focus, which has been a problem for saffas all game long.


With the regards to you saying the first try being forward and nobody calling it? That's no problem we wouldn't have picked it up in real time as well probably. What I can call him out (with regards to his credibility as an international referee) is the channel in which the original line break was made for the first try, you can clearly see Mr. Poite moving straight into Lood de Jager's running line, obstructing him from being part of play. Now I'm not saying Lood would've made a tackle, but part of your practical assesment as a referee is your on field positioning, and if you obstruct any player part of play you own up and bring play back. With the assumption that Argentina would kick to poles on Imhoff's third try, check on the replay exactly where the touch judge was positioned, why did he make the assumption that they would kick to post?
 
No, I don't think his credibility is specially in trouble here. He makes mistakes for sure but no more than most international referees I see.

For example: first argie try is pass forward, but today no referee is going to call that, because most of tier 1 team do it. You can see the same try almost every game.

The truth is that the third Imhoff try was ok. He calls time on right after the false start from Cubelli and Argentina simply does not start because their captain is on the floor- they're deciding.

Then JMH sees that JdV has taken his players assuming that they are kicking -points or line out- and goes for it and gets a try. End of story. Next time stay focus, which has been a problem for saffas all game long.
I'd love to congratulate Argentine on a historic win. They played with passion and were accyrate in what they did.

To say it didn't involve a huge hand from the ref would be erroneous though. And I'm not talking about a few key instances here. I'm talking about a ref having two totay different rule books;

When Argentina infringes at the scrum he resets, when SA does (or even doesn't but its 50/50) he penalizes. When we are attacking in the 22 and Beast goes off his feet clearing out he penalizes us but not one of the entire Argentine pack that does so at near every single ruck. The one line-out Creevy doesn't through skew we steal. How many high tackles from Argentina and general cynca play frm them when SA is attacking? Only the one yellow when the game is essentially over is extremely lenient. SA forward passes blown up, Argentina's not so etc etc.

I generally don't like to blame referees and I feel I can handle a loss as well as the next man but your total denial of a poor ref performance is too much to take.
 
Actually I thought the refereeing was just fine. The only calls of note were

1 - The 4th Argentine try: He was absolutely right with his ruling. There is no Law that says he cannot call time on while medics are still on the field. The only protocol here is, was the injured player in a position where he might interfere with play or be endangered if play continued. He wasn't, so play on. The Pumas were quick to spot the opportunity, the Boks were caught napping.

2 - The disallowed South African try: Again the correct call. Poite was clearly indicating offside a couple of metres back from where the Bok player took the tap kick

3 - The TMO initiated review for the last South African try: Ben Skeen was well within his rights to review this. He only got one look at full speed, at the end of which a Pumas player grounded the ball. What if he had said nothing, and it turned out that Habana didn't actually ground the ball? Skeen would have copped a red ink entry in his Match Assessment.

I rest my case!
 
JdV specifically asked if he could go and talk to his team, as Poite said they were on a warning.

As he walked over to the team/they gathered under the posts, Argentina took the quick tap and scored.

I genuinely can't see how that's fair in any way. You can say the Boks should have been more aware, but when the referee has said they've got time to talk....

Well, that's irrelevant really. He should not have been talking with his back turned.

There is no basis in Law for a captain being allowed time off to have a chat with his players, and its not a reason for time-off. If the referee tells the captain to have a chat, its up to the captain to decide when best to do that, but he still has to be aware that the game could restart at any time. Besides, how long does it take to shout NO MORE PENALTIES you your team.

They should have been watching the referee. When he put his arm up, that is a signal for time on...professional rugby players ought to be aware of this. There was about 3 seconds before the Pumas player took the tap kick, plenty of time to set the defence.

I seem to recall a similar thing in a EOYT match between Ireland and South Africa a few years ago.

ETA: Found it. Ireland v South Africa, November 13, 2004

If the link doesn't take you to the right part of the video, its 28m 24s on the youtube video (19:00 on the game clock)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AOIx4U1dBck#t=1704
 
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Interesting
2 Championship games last night and the 2 losers off these games going ape about the refereeng.

Hmmmm theres a connection here I just know it.
 
Well, that's irrelevant really. He should not have been talking with his back turned.

There is no basis in Law for a captain being allowed to have a chat with his players, and its not a reason for time-off. They should have bee watching the referee. When he put his arm up, that is a signal for time on...professional rugby players ought to be aware of this. There was about 3 seconds before the Pumas player took the tap kick, plenty of time to set the defence.

I seem to recall a similar thing in a EOYT match between Ireland and South Africa a few years ago.

Fair enough!
I don't claim to know the rule book back to back - I know just about enough to get me through a game without the referee shouting at me too too much, and no more :p


I think I just sympathise with the Boks as, on first look, it seems a pretty cheap way to score a try - though if England (or Sale) had done the same, I'd be shouting from the roof tops about their quick thinking/ingenuity.
 
I watched none of todays game. Poite is one of the worst ref's I've ever seen. How he is demed worthy of international games is beyond me.
 

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