Rugby 2012 - Attack Improvement Suggestions

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2011 Game' started by best_fullback, Apr 15, 2010.

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Which view do you play/prefer in Rugby games?

  1. I play/prefer a side-on view

    85 vote(s)
    42.7%
  2. I play/prefer an end-on view

    114 vote(s)
    57.3%
  1. best_fullback

    best_fullback Senior Member

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    Right, seeing as there is a thread for improvement suggestions for rucks and mauls I think it should follow suit that there should be a thread for each different aspect of the game so the HB guys can easily see our suggestions on them.

    Right what is everyone's thoughts on how to improve the attacking aspect of the game?

    My personal thoughts on what should be improved:

    In the most recent EA rugby games the running has been ok, though it can get very boring when the same gap always opens up in the midfield allowing for easy tries again and again. I think there needs to be a total overhaul of the way attacks are constructed (such as set plays, as they pretty much useless in the last games because you could run through a team with normal passing anyway) and the way you can use players specific traits in attack.

    EA need to do away with the 'star player' system, its far too arcade and makes some players almost god like. For instance Wilkinson should be good at kicking and passing but not very good at running. Basteraud on the other hand would be very hard to tackle and clearly a physical presence, but his kicking far worse than a seasoned fly half. Rugby Challenge 2006 managed to capture the difference between a lumbering forward and a slick back quite well (for a bad game) and meant that trying something a player would not usually do, such as a side step from a prop, would more than likely be close to inneffective, whereas a shoulder charge would not, and vice versa.

    I think there should be a lot more emphasis on the scrum half and fly half also. They are the pivots in attack and are where the whole play will be decided. I would like to see a sort of american football style set play system where a play will be set by the fly half (say a simple dummy scissors pop) and instead of the player setting the play and then being simply taken along with the animation you should control the fly half so you have to run the correct line with him across the switching reciever and then pop to the 2nd reciever. However, it should be your choice what you do in the set play and if you want to do the switch when you are running across pressing pass you will operate the switch and assume control of the reciever. Likewise after selecting the set play if you see a gap in the defence you could just run straight with the fly half and ignore the set play to exploit it. The flyhalf is the 'quarterback' who runs the whole play. This could mean like in Fifa 10 you could set running routes from players in the back line and (possibly) create your own set plays - though understanding the low budget I wouldn't expect this.

    The running moves in the previous games are awful too; just scripted animations which if pulled off at the right time render your players paralysed far more akin to a game like fifa street than rugby. If anyone has played the new Madden game then I think a running mechanic should be implemented similar to that. Though it is not perfect the players arch and lean as they run and feel heavy meaning they cannot just turn on a sixpence at full speed as in previous EA rugby titles. The special moves should also be physics based not animation timing based. The moves I would like to see would be handoff (L+R), charge, sidestep (L+R), hitch kick (if you're wondering what that is look at Ryder in the Fiji 7s), dummy (pass + kick) and possibly spin.

    Passing needs to be improved and definitely offloads. I would like to see something like JLR bought back where you hold the pass button before the tackle and release it when in the tackle to execute it.
     
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  3. dieriaan@hotmail.com

    dieriaan@hotmail.com Junior Member

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    Great suggestion best_fullback.

    I had the following in mind:
    When a backline player has possession, pulling one of the triggers (xbox) will call for runners to your left/right - left trigger, runners to your left, etc - each of the runners are assigned a button prompt - and the player can pass the ball, if he so chooses, to any of the called runners (similar to the suggestion above). The complexity of the running lines and number of available "runners" can be dependant on selected team strategy/momentum/skill of attacking team. This can be used at ruck time as well, pulling one of the triggers prompts for runners close to the ruck - if you don't pass to any of the runners your scrummy will go for the brake around the fringe - again the number of runners and running lines can depend on momentum/selected strategy.

    This system could be based around momentum - when the attacking team has no momentum only basic running lines will be available and as momentum increases more options become available or maybe the ability to "call for a runner" more than once in 1 phase of play; maybe the ability to perform a sidestep/charge/handoff with recieving player as soon as the ball is passed.

    Having pulled the left trigger to "call" for runners - pulling the right trigger can execute a chip kick/grubber and vice versa. Line kicks, up and unders, drop kicks should be executed by putting your flyhalf in the pocket.

    I enjoyed all the games to date, but found all of them way to easy. I also didn't really use any of the set plays.
    I'd like to see a rugby game where you should "play what's in front of you" - where the battle to outwit/out muscle your opponent to get over the advantage line is simulated closer to the real thing.
    Not sure if any of this is possible - maybe in heaven someday! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  4. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    I posted this in the suggestions forum..

    In Attack

    *The right stick would be for elusive manouvers;
    -Move the stick to the left= Quick step to the left
    -Move the stick to the right = Quick step to the right
    -Move the stick left then right = Pronounced step to the right (A players left and right legs would be mapped to the stick (like in madden), so the move would be move fluid and specific to the tempo of how you moved the stick than in previous games where there was just one animation)
    -Move the stick right then left = Pronounced step to the right
    -Move the stick back = Stutter/Goose step
    -Move the stick forward = hop/jump (this could be used to jump over fallen players, in conjunction with a sidestep, or to avoid an ankletap from behind)

    You would also then be able to produce combos if you had the right timing and a player with a high enough agility/ elusiveness rating, so if you were to push the stick up, then right, then left, this would happen

    *If you then hold down the L2 button, the stick would be for power manouvers;

    -Move the stick to the left = quick fend to the left
    -Move the stick to the right = quick fend to the right
    -Move the stick left then right = Drop the shoulder to the right (like rupeni does at 2:47 in this clip)
    -Move the stick right then left = Drop the shoulder to the left
    -Move the stick back = Head down and leg drive (This was seriously lacking from the last couple of games, its a staple move)
    -Move the stick forward = Lomu style bunt

    If you got good enough at the game, you would eventually be able to string together combinations of both power and evasion moves; steping to the outside and fending for instance.
     
  5. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    Love this idea.. my big problem with the set piece plays was that there was no real control over them, that and the players always performed the moves at a light jog.

    This is the way Rugby 2012 should move to, the flyhalf really conducting play. For each set play every player would have a set route that they run, The first five would decide who to pass to by choosing to pop pass (tap L1 or R1), throw a normal pass (R1 or L1) or Throw a skip pass (Hold R1 or L1 for a while) depending on where the holes are and where his runners are headed.

    The plays wouldn't be set-in-stone like in previous games, the players running different lines and angles would merely be giving the flyhalf options. You could have 4 set plays mapped to your dpad that you could call during rucks, and have a menu of options at lineout and scrum screens..
     
  6. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Support runners actually running would be a bonus. The amount of times i've made a break, then had my support runners fading away into the horizon as they jog slowly along with me, instead of sprinting, it's a killer
     
  7. best_fullback

    best_fullback Senior Member

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    That is exactly what I envisage Ragner! The use of options on the fly!

    When a fly half is playing a game they will adapt the play to what is happening infront of them so why not implement this into the game.

    I like your thoughts on a modifier button for special moves and also stringing moves into a sequence of special moves. I don't know if any of you are into american football, but i was a few years back and I bought a game called ESPN NFL 2K5 (which is still highly regarded as better than the lastest releases of the Madden series) and the special moves in that game were brilliant.

    By controlling the player with the left stick you could use the right stick to do moves, and more importantly, string together moves into combos. You could so a stutter step to the left by pressing down left on the stick and then do a big sidestep off the right by pressing right. It seamlessly created the two moves into one motion and this is a PS2 game we're talking about. See here and here to see what im on about. Though they're not great videos it shows you what I mean.
     
  8. Versus

    Versus BANNED!!!

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    Customizable moves, simple. Plus have inside runners.

    The most simple thing they can do though, is be able to pass an inside ball, it is that easy. I know you can in a move, but the moves take 5-10 seconds to load, in that time you will probably lose the ball, unless you do it from a rolling maul. The scrum also needs to be more of an attacking option, you can't push back an attacking scrum and you can't push back a defensive scrum that much. There needs to be more balancing with the speed also, someone like Habana is quick, I know, but in a 10 metre area, he isn't that much quicker than a lot of other players, just a bit quicker. I think everything that needs to be improved is just balance, there is so much inbalance in this game.
     
  9. ck1991

    ck1991 Junior Member

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    yea, runners off the ball carrier would go a long way to improve on previous games. for example, inside runners or runners coming on a switch line. also, more in-depth backs moves that could (if possible) be customized or even created by the player.
     
  10. Bokbe4k

    Bokbe4k Senior Member

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    The analog sticks should be for direction as well as speed,the sticks are touch sensitive so if want to run slower(which you wont) just ease up on the stick there shouldn't be a button that makes you run faster,that can be utilized for something else like the hand off,just think about it,no one on the field runs at half pace,the side step can also be incorporated into the directional stick,for instance a quick jolt to the left/right and immediately forward again and you have your side-step,of course if you don't go forward again you just change direction.This will all free the other stick up for something else like the chip kick,maybe a quick flick backwards,the kicks height and distance depending on the speed of the flick.
     
  11. el_tk

    el_tk Junior Member

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    I think it would be a good idea to use the right stick like Madden does- up for a bosh, left and right for steps, and down for something else (it's a hurdle in Madden) and the better timed it is, the more effective it is
     
  12. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    They use the same in RL3 on the Wii (when using a gamecube controller) - Left/Right = sidestep, Up = Charge/break tackle, Down = Dummy pass
     
  13. ridgerunnersp

    ridgerunnersp Member

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    Biggest thing for we on attack, is there is no way to get the ball out wide. I want to be able to move the ball from one side of the field to the other in one phase. There are plenty of times where you will have a 2 on 3, and if the outside runner would just stay wide you could throw a skip to him but instead the runners just all bunch up and end up getting tackled/turned over. Which brings me to the point of turnovers and their seemingly random occurrence in the rugby series. There has to be some semblance of realism in this area, as it can totally ruin the game. No team is going to be turned over the nearly 100% that they do against teams like crusaders, all blacks etc. Instead, you could introduce some mechanic for slowing the ball down. This can make the attacking momentum harder to maintain, while not destroying the rhythm of the move.
     
  14. B3DDO3

    B3DDO3 Junior Member

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    As I said in a different thread this would be great to solve all problems

    Lineout Move Creator
    You simply create a running path for players and pick a jumper maybe have a dummy jumper you could do it so some run to the front and 1 player gets lifted at the same time other players run to the back and 1 gets lifted pass to the back and then it gets passed down to the scrum half while he runs though the gap in the middle but you can experiment with moves you create see what works then assign the move to a position on the analoge stick or digital pad to use in game. Could be very effective this will eliminate people asking for extra lineout options because now you have unlimited shouldn't require much extra programming.

    Set Move Creator
    This again will be like the lineout creator or like maddens create a play you have your players lined up as you want by moving them around then you choose runs for each of them and actions eg center comes running up quick with his arms out ready for the ball but he is only a dummy runner. You can set it up for the type of game you play if you favour the dropkicks then you make a move where the fly half will drop right back and as soon as he enters the ball he will enter kick animatio as of now you have never been able to do this, this again could be put on the digital pad/analoge stick like it is now but you set up your own runs
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2010
  15. Ducky97

    Ducky97 Junior Member

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    something i think would also be a good feature is a strategy system like on rugby league 3.You could bring your fullback into the line or set up a deep attack which i think would work even better in a union game
     
  16. The Kiddie

    The Kiddie Junior Member

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    Rugby 2012 - Passing

    Part of the reason Jonah Lomu Rugby worked well was because the passing was simple and very effective. Even non-rugby players could pick up a controller and quickly get to grips with the game.

    Passing

    Tap L1 for pass left
    Double tap L1 for miss pass left
    Keep L1 pressed and release when ready to off load
    Tap L1 and then R1 quickly to dummy pass

    As I said keep it simple!
     
  17. jawmalawm24

    jawmalawm24 Senior Member

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    Jonah Lomu Rugby's passing system was awesome and you could pick which way to offload instead of being prompted like Ea Rugby and you don't know which way it's gonna go.
     
  18. Hamez

    Hamez Senior Member

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    I am really surprised by the poll. Every single person I know bar 1 has always played with the side on veiw, thats at least 20 people.
     
  19. TRF C A Iversen

    TRF C A Iversen Rugby Gaming Nut

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    I'm also surprised. Using my admin software there also seem to be a few fairly in-active accounts only popping up to vote on some polls. Still not enough to make a landslide difference.
     
  20. Hamez

    Hamez Senior Member

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    Still shows how important it is to have both cameras tho isnt it.
     
  21. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    Mate you're surprised? everyone i know that plays the game bar NOONE plays end on mode.
    We have had a number of tournaments back in Taranaki with about 30 people and end-on was the only mode used. Again at Massey in palmerston north last year we had a long-running rugby 08 knockout tournament out of people in the halls of residence, about 70 people played and they were all end-on.

    I just always assumed based on my experiences that that was the way everyone played the game, its quite sobering to see that only 4 fewer people play side-on. I see your point now Iverson :)
     
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