Rugby 2012 - Defence Improvement Suggestions

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2011 Game' started by best_fullback, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. best_fullback

    best_fullback Senior Member

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    I feel looking through the suggestions thread this is an area that many neglect or haven't thought about. As defence is half of the game I feel it has to be given as much attention as attack otherwise (as shown in games such as madden) a game with a poor defence system, or over biased attack system, can ruin a game.

    What do you guys think? What kind of tackles do you want to see? One kind or different buttons for different tackles?

    What about defensive formations? More? Less?

    How much of control would you like over the defenders?

    I really want to get some good debates going on what you guys feel about improving this area so if you've got a suggestion speak up! :)

    My personal views:

    I think tackling should be like it is in JLR and Rugby Challenge 2006 with a normal 'wrap' tackle button which would have a higher success rate (especially if big v small) and a 'smash' tackle which would have a lower success rate but a large chance of forcing a turnover if successful. Obviously again if used by small v big you would just be bounced off. This would then mean big forwards could put in big hits on backs, but it wouldn't be silly to the point where Shane Williams could flatten Chabal.

    In the defensive line I think there should be the formations as there are rugby 06/08 (tight, kick, wide etc) but with the shoulder buttons you should be able to initiate either blitz or drift defence depending on the opposition play happening on the fly, and the harder you hold it down the more aggressive/fast the defence will be and if you let go the defence will just approach normally. If you get it wrong then you can get caught out wide (blitz) or hit with an inside runner (drift) so you should judge in accordingly as in real life.

    Instead of selecting one player and contolling them for the whole defence or frantically trying to select to the closest defender to the CPU I think the AI should just automatically follow the ball (as in football games) meaning you always have the closest player selected to make the tackle. Then you can press the change player button if you wish to select another.

    What do you guys think?
     
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  3. lucky number 7

    lucky number 7 Senior Member

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    I agree with the different buttons for different tackles as i loved pulling off the big hits older games but one problem i had with them was shane williams being able to knock seven shades of shite out of a prop forward . i would liketo see a more defined difference between the backs an forwards in this respect.

    also there were far to few tackle animations in the older game and they got somewhat boring after a while i suggest only have the animations for the wrap tackles and then for the big hits using a hit stick or different button maybe a ragdoll affect of some sort i am not sure if thats possible but it would be horrifically cool
     
  4. Hamez

    Hamez Senior Member

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    Number one thing with defence is the AI, it leaves stupid gaps and doesnt mark up properly, that would be the very first thing to fix.

    Second would be to make tackles more accurate, its way to easy to miss tackles.

    Then add more types of tackles.

    Then more defence formations, so like the kicking, standard, wide, tight, inside defence and variations of them

    and then add in defensive paterns. Like the umbrella defence, up and in, up and out, slide, swamp, scramble etc.

    I think a bigger focus on defence is in need. I want to have to work for trys and win by defence, not just out scoring the other team with a score line of like 70 - 65 in 10 minute halves. There needs to be a reason to kick the ball out of your own 22, to take drop goals, penalty goals etc
     
  5. McCracka_09

    McCracka_09 Member

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    sliding defence is the most important defence line in rugby so that should be put in. like when on defence hold L1 to slide left an R1 to slide right. also on fifa they have this running option when you press L2 the player starts to ghost the opistion an spreds out but does not sprint, the player just follows the player. this should also be put in the game
     
  6. Hamez

    Hamez Senior Member

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    Sliding defence isnt the most important defence, its up and in....
     
  7. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    I posted this in suggestions a couple weeks ago..

    In Defence
    I see there being three main types of tackles; normal tackles, ballwinning tackles and power tackles.

    -Normal tackles are just performed by running into the attacker, these would hardly ever turn the ball over.

    -Fetcher tackles would turn over the ball, once a fetcher type tackle is performed, the defender gets to their feet and will turnover the ball unless the attacker has support players to ruck the ball. If not performed correctly it has a chance of missing however and you could get penalised for hands on the ground.

    -Power tackles would halt the momentum of the attacking team and have a chance of jarring the ball loose. If not performed correctly It has a chance of missing however and you could get penalised for a high tackle.

    *The right stick would by default be for fetcher type tackles,

    You would have to line the attacker up to tackle them,
    -If the attacker is infront of you, you move the stick forward to tackle them.
    -If they step to your right, you move the stick to the right to tackle them
    ect..
    -Move the stick in the opposite direction to the attacker = attempt to put the attacker to ground without leaving your feet and go straight for the ball (If performed properly, its the quickest and most effective way to turn over the ball. If you get the stick direction or timing wrong, or if the player isnt skilled enough, it is an easy tackle to break. You could also get penalised or yellow carded for not releasing)

    *If you hold down the L2 button, it would become a power tackle stick.

    You would have to line up the attacker much like the fetcher tackle.

    If the attacker is directly infront of you, move the stick forward
    ect..

    If you move the stick in the opposite direction to the attacker = Lift and slam tackle (This tackle is very likely to knock the ball loose or injure the attacker if performed correctly. If the timing or stick direction is off or the player isnt skilled enough, then its an easy tackle to break. If poorly performed it could become a spear tackle, resulting in a penalty or yellow card.)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I would also like to see defensive tactics play more of a role in the game. For example..

    *You should be able to select whether the defensive line are running straight up or at the attackers inside or outside shoulder.

    -You could choose to run at the attackers' outside shoulder, effectively telling them they can cut back in. But, you will make passing outwide difficult and pretty much eliminate the chance of them running around you. The general idea is to starve their wingers of ball by forcing the inside backs to cut inside where they should get taken down by the forwards tracking across.
    You would use this defensive set against a team like Fiji that have amazing wingers but so-so midfielders, or if you have a very slow pack so you could bring the play to them instead of them having to waddle all over the pitch.

    -You could choose to run at the attackers' inside shoulder, effectively giving them the pass wide or letting them run away from you. But, you will pretty much eliminate their ability to step inside you. The general idea is that you are trying to push the attackers to the sidelines. Getting the attackers to run laterally, cutting down on the space available to the winger when he gets the ball leading to the defence sliding over and easily shutting him down.
    You would use this defensive set against a team with a good midfield like Ireland, this would mean that BOD doesnt have the option of stepping inside the defence, he doesnt have the pace to go around either so his only real option is to shovel the ball on to the winger where you can slide the D shut on them.
    You could also use this tactic if you think your forward pack is alot more mobile then the oppositions, you draw the ball away from their forwards and back your guys to steal the ball before their fattys get there.

    -You could also choose to just run head on at the line. This doesnt give the offence any options, it puts alot of pressure on the attack individually and doesnt lead them anywhere, its just backing the individual defence of your players. The negitives are that if a player misses a tackle, the defensive line isnt sliding over to help, you have to rely on the full back, half back or flanker to clean up after you.
    You would use this tactic on a team like the All Blacks (without Dan Carter) the general idea is to eliminate gaps, to show a wall of defenders with no seams or places to break through, this puts pressure on the attack and hopefully they abandon their structure and just try and break your line as individuals.

    This way, you could give a player a poor "defensive positioning" rating to discourage you from selecting them, with tangible punishments for the poor selections. In Rugby 08, people would just stack their teams with the fastest players, Habana at centre was a big one. The thing that would stop you from selecting speedsters in your midfield would be that when you select a defensive tactic, players with poor defensive positioning would be more likely to do the wrong thing. For example, when the whole line is running at the inside shoulder, a player with poor defensive positioning may run at the outside shoulder, creating a defensive mix-up that good attackers would spot and exploit. Obviously, this would be more of an issue for midfielders than wingers, hence the ability for players with poorer positioning to play on the wings.

    Ive noticed from my own rugby playing experience that the majority of line breaks aren't actually anything to do with the defenders ability to tackle, but caused by tactical defensive mixups like the one i mentioned or if forwards are in the backline.

    Another addition i'd like to see is the player you are controlling setting the pace of the defensive line, so if i sprint up, the line blitzes with me. If i jog up the line jogs up, if i hold the line holds. If a player has poor positioning, then they may run up too fast or too slowly, creating gaps. I think its important that the impact of the ratings are tangible like this, so you can physically see the disadvantages and advantages of particular attributes
     
  8. OnTheBall

    OnTheBall Senior Member

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    Any structured defense would be an improvment on the obvious neglect of defense in previous games. Even a simple blitz or drift. The superman tackle has to go. The defense must move up in a line.
    A little more variation in tackling and I'll be happy.
     
  9. McCracka_09

    McCracka_09 Member

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    considering im a rep rugby player an an almost fully qualified ref.. sliding defence is used more then up an in...
     
  10. Hamez

    Hamez Senior Member

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    considering ive played rugby for over 13 years, watched it for over that you will see that nearly every pro team plays with the up and in defence. slide defence is too easy to beat as you'd know being a rep player.
     
  11. TRF C A Iversen

    TRF C A Iversen Rugby Gaming Nut

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    We require actual content to your posts.
     
  12. Haysie

    Haysie Senior Member

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    Stop big-noting yourselves, you geese :p
     
  13. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    You are both embarrassing yourselves.
     
  14. Hurricane Nate

    Hurricane Nate Senior Member

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    Why not be able to preset your defence before games like choosing rush defence, drift, up and in or just standard

    In game you could still have the standard, wide, tight, kick defensive set ups using the d-pad and still be able to change
    your defence via the management options when you hit pause. You could play tight, rush defence or wide, up and in
    defence with advantages and disadvantages to any option you choose i.e rush defence that is tight leaves you open
    to chip kicks in behind, maybe a kick from fly half to the winger or quick ball to the wing who could get on the
    outside or being the defensive team would put pressure on the inside backs with the ball, tackles behind the advantage
    line creating turnovers and overall alot more pressure on all the backs creating hesitancy and possible mistakes or
    intercepts.
     
  15. alex

    alex Senior Member

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    i like that idea
     
  16. ridgerunnersp

    ridgerunnersp Member

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    The defense can definitely stand to improve. My main problem is with the current game is the way defenders always bunch up. There will be a group next to the ruck and another group 20m away. Also the defending players chase the ball around like a bunch of schoolboys. If you watch any professional rugby game, you will see players reading the attack and positioning themselves accordingly. They don't all do the same thing for every situation.
     
  17. The Cam

    The Cam Member

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    Seeing that the most important area that needs to be covered is at the fringes of the ruck, from there I think players must be in control of the defensive line. A balance meter could be used, where players must maintain perfect balance, otherwise, they would be off-side or break the line which would create gaps. The pre-set defence is a great idea.
     
  18. Handsome Hog

    Handsome Hog Junior Member

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    Once again, hits the nail on the head. Can HB just drop us n line to advise if some of Rangers thoughts can be implemented?
     
  19. Joni89

    Joni89 Senior Member

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    Spear Tackle
    I think an occasional spear tackle would make the game more exciting.
    There should be a 'Big Hit' button which occasionally results in High Tackles or Spear Tackles when used with a defender that has Poor Discipline.
     
  20. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    I sort of covered that already.. i would rather a tackle became a spear beacuse of poor timing than it being randomly a spear tackle every now and then, that would get very annoying very quickly
     
  21. brettssf

    brettssf Junior Member

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    I love the way Hurricane Nate thinkss.
     
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