Rugby is being ruined

[Tony vellere]

That is somewhat of a leap as many of the tackles we are seeing given cards are not even remotely dangerous they simply fall under a very broad interpretation of a law.

There is a vast difference between doing 41kmph through a school zone (speed limit is 40kmph here) and 160kmph and the punishment shouldn't be the same but what we are seeing currently at this world cup a one punishment fits all approach and I believe it has detracted from the spectacle of the tournament as a whole.

Here here mate with you 100%

 

[bushytop]

That is somewhat of a leap as many of the tackles we are seeing given cards are not even remotely dangerous they simply fall under a very broad interpretation of a law.

There is a vast difference between doing 41kmph through a school zone (speed limit is 40kmph here) and 160kmph and the punishment shouldn't be the same but what we are seeing currently at this world cup a one punishment fits all approach and I believe it has detracted from the spectacle of the tournament as a whole.

The big problem as far as spectators are concerned is that World Rugby (via the refs) chose to 'get real' during the biggest event in the sport. They have been making platitudes for 18 months - 2 years but without any follow through ('saying' what constitutes a yellow/red card but hardly any getting served)... so I guess players (& fans) just thought it was lip service... until it wasn't.

'They' (world rugby, refs etc) should've been getting the balance 'right' on these matters for the last two years so by the time that this global showpiece kicked off, coaches, players... and fans would have reached a level of harmony with the new world order... they didn't and we are here

 

[Leinster Fan]

Bundee Aki incident happened in the coming Quarter-Final it would be a game-deciding decision based on a tackle that neither dangerous nor malicious.

The Samoan player was out cold on the ground and had to go off. No malice obviously, but it was absolutely dangerous.

 

[The_Wol]

Fellas he's right Max Brito most certainly isn't a quadriplegic from injuries sustained in the 1995 RWC, Halley Appleby didn't pass away from injuries sustained in a game, Charlie Fetoai didn't have to end his career aged 23 because of a serious neck injury.

Injuries only started happening this year.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Bring back the good old days

 

[Kiwiwomble]

dont engage, they're just a noob who's come on to get a raise. yes...i hate seeing so many cards, especially from accidents, i was always brought up to think cards and penalties were for deliberate acts....but they're better than the alternative

One of my team mates broke his back in a club game (can you imagine what kind of damage these guys can do)...paralysed and wheelchair bound...we played the same position and we alternated starting game to game, my selfish side was bad enough, could have been me...can only imagine what it was like for him and his family

..yeah, i dont like seeing all the cards and penalties but its the same argument as the rearrange games for the typhoon...its only a game

 

[ncurd]

Wow some New Zealanders finally see some cards their way and suddenly they 'realise' getting red cards are bad and you 'might' lose a game.

Here's a hint don't tackle at head height? Don't lead with a shoulder and make sure both arms are lifted before the tackle was attempted.


The mad thing is back when rugby was 'tough' as someone else pointed out. You were always taught to aim for someone's stomouch to bring them down effectively. What has happened is people have been taught to go higher in attempt to perform choke tackles and start a maul in order to win the ball back or dislodge the ball the ball in the hit.

Honestly the amount of nonsence people are saying about red cards this tournament is driving me a little bit do dally. These have been red card offences for years and it's only a couple of yellows that I felt should be penalties that have really come under the guidelines. But some apparent avid watchers/players of the game seam to think they were invented 4 weeks ago.

Remember back when people after the opening weekend were calling refs a joke for allowing people to get away with stuff?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Wow some New Zealanders finally see some cards their way and suddenly they 'realise' getting red cards are bad and you 'might' lose a game.

Here's a hint don't tackle at head height? Don't lead with a shoulder and make sure both arms are lifted before the tackle was attempted.


The mad thing is back when rugby was 'tough' as someone else pointed out. You were always taught to aim for someone's stomouch to bring them down effectively. What has happened is people have been taught to go higher in attempt to perform choke tackles and start a maul in order to win the ball back or dislodge the ball the ball in the hit.

Honestly the amount of nonsence people are saying about red cards this tournament is driving me a little bit do dally. These have been red card offences for years and it's only a couple of yellows that I felt should be penalties that have really come under the guidelines. But some apparent avid watchers/players of the game seam to think they were invented 4 weeks ago.

Remember back when people after the opening weekend were calling refs a joke for allowing people to get away with stuff?

Just because someone is a kiwi do you have to point that out, and therefore insinuate all kiwis, when they say something stupid?

cant we just talk about and deal with individuals, its getting as cringe as the idea of the "whinging pom"

 

[The_Wol]

Just because someone is a kiwi do you have to point that out, and therefore insinuate all kiwis, when they say something stupid?

cant we just talk about and deal with individuals, its getting as cringe as the idea of the "whinging pom"

Its more the fact that people think because they're a kiwi they're an authority on Rugby, the way this guy announced he was a kiwi was similar to having a top fan badge on facebook. It's neat but no one cares. Not a jab at you at all you're a top fella, but this Tony fella did make a point of letting everyone know that he was from New Zealand and that made him the big boss in the topic.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Its more the fact that people think because they're a kiwi they're an authority on Rugby, the way this guy announced he was a kiwi was similar to having a top fan badge on facebook. It's neat but no one cares. Not a jab at you at all you're a top fella, but this Tony fella did make a point of letting everyone know that he was from New Zealand and that made him the big boss in the topic.

Fair enough ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[die_mole]

The only way we are gonna change behavior is if teams lose games because of dangerous play. When a player loses their nation a World Cup knockout game cause they can't control their tackle I guarantee coaches are going to stop instructing guys to go for big hits on the chest instead of hits to the stomach.

You need to make hitting high hurt your team more than allowing an offload.

If you miss the stomach you hit chest. If you miss chest you might hit a guy in the nose.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

My only concession is i hope WR are ready to card someone who ducks into a tackle for putting themselves in a dangerous position, i dont think the ball carrier should have so much protection, they need to take some responsibility for their own safety too, in football they card for diving, i think that would go along way to dampening some of the outcry,

safety is the main concern and as we learn on site its everyone's responsibility starting with yourself

 

[die_mole]

My only concession is i hope WR are ready to card someone who ducks into a tackle for putting themselves in a dangerous position, i dont think the ball carrier should have so much protection, they need to take some responsibility for their own safety too, in football they card for diving, i think that would go along way to dampening some of the outcry,

safety is the main concern and as we learn on site its everyone's responsibility starting with yourself

I'm going to disagree and say I'm fine with dipping just being a mitigating factor. I'm okay with a player drastically dipping and it just being play on.

I don't want to discourage ball carriers to be upright because then it will be choke tackle city and we'd have 25 maul turnovers a game.

 

[The_Wol]

I'm going to disagree and say I'm fine with dipping just being a mitigating factor. I'm okay with a player drastically dipping and it just being play on.

I don't want to discourage ball carriers to be upright because then it will be choke tackle city and we'd have 25 maul turnovers a game.

Sounds like you're a maul hater. Why do you hate rugby so much. I only watch rugby to view mauls and scrum resets everything else is just unnecessary.

 

[ncurd]

My only concession is i hope WR are ready to card someone who ducks into a tackle for putting themselves in a dangerous position,

You have ago at me #notallkiwiposters then say something this stupid.

I will also point out if you can find me some vocal non-kiwi's who keep going on about red cards, I know there have been a few flashes in the pan. But regular posters probably none.

 

[Zapphod]

Wow some New Zealanders finally see some cards their way and suddenly they 'realise' getting red cards are bad and you 'might' lose a game.

Here's a hint don't tackle at head height? Don't lead with a shoulder and make sure both arms are lifted before the tackle was attempted.


The mad thing is back when rugby was 'tough' as someone else pointed out. You were always taught to aim for someone's stomouch to bring them down effectively. What has happened is people have been taught to go higher in attempt to perform choke tackles and start a maul in order to win the ball back or dislodge the ball the ball in the hit.

Honestly the amount of nonsence people are saying about red cards this tournament is driving me a little bit do dally. These have been red card offences for years and it's only a couple of yellows that I felt should be penalties that have really come under the guidelines. But some apparent avid watchers/players of the game seam to think they were invented 4 weeks ago.

Remember back when people after the opening weekend were calling refs a joke for allowing people to get away with stuff?

Wow must take one hell of an education to figure that out and if it were accurate I would probably leave it alone, unfortunately, it isn't so I won't.

Other than the two half baked Italians demonstrating the art of spear tackling for the ref the majority of the cards have been for players falling into tackles so while it is neat to be able to give the glib response "Here's a hint don't tackle at head height" it is very inaccurate as they are not tacking at head height but rather stomach to chest height.

What are the stats to date 26 yellow and 7 red cards handed out in the pool games now you can and do try to argue that these offences have been in place for years which is true however for some reason they waited until rugby's showcase event to enforce them and then treated every offence as the worst case, if they keep this up the winner will be the team with the most players left on the field at the end of the day which as I have said is detracting from the sport.

As an aside, we were taught to ensure your tackle was below nipple height, preferably wrap the elbows up to prevent offloads and encourage dislocation of the ball.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

You have ago at me #notallkiwiposters then say something this stupid.

I will also point out if you can find me some vocal non-kiwi's who keep going on about red cards, I know there have been a few flashes in the pan. But regular posters probably none.

i counter with you've taken someone with fewer than 20 posts as proof the rest of us are dicks...just call them a dick and everyone else will agree

I'd say most Kiwis have just been interested in talking about the issue, talking about whats actually leading to the event then you see one noob spouting the "harden up" mentality and we're all lumped in with them...classy

im sorry you think taking personal responsibility for safety as well those protections already in place is stupid

 

[ncurd]

i counter with you've taken someone with fewer than 20 posts as proof the rest of us are dicks...just call them a dick and everyone else will agree

im sorry you think taking personal responsibility for safety as well those protections already in place is stupid

And another one of countrymen just posted even more ******** above. He has a few more posts than 20. So we are up to three Kiwis without a clue.

You know do know that sudden change of head height is a mitigating factor, right? So already accounted for in the framework. But sure we should be carding people for being tackled.

Wow must take one hell of an education to figure that out and if it were accurate I would probably leave it alone, unfortunately, it isn't so I won't.

Other than the two half baked Italians demonstrating the art of spear tackling for the ref the majority of the cards have been for players falling into tackles so while it is neat to be able to give the glib response "Here's a hint don't tackle at head height" it is very inaccurate as they are not tacking at head height but rather stomach to chest height.

What are the stats to date 26 yellow and 7 red cards handed out in the pool games now you can and do try to argue that these offences have been in place for years which is true however for some reason they waited until rugby's showcase event to enforce them and then treated every offence as the worst case, if they keep this up the winner will be the team with the most players left on the field at the end of the day which as I have said is detracting from the sport.

This is so wholly inaccurate it makes me laugh. SBW got carded in a Lion's match 2 years ago for these kind of hits. Barrett got carded in the Rugby Championship.

Yet world rugby have only just decided to start enforcing these rules.

What has happened is world rugby has introduced a framework to help explain and give some consistency to already existing laws. Few people have been carded for something that would not of been the same offence 4 years ago. We are just seeing a lot of players do some pretty boneheaded crap.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

And another one of countrymen just posted even more ******** above. He has a few more posts than 20. So we are up to three Kiwis without a clue.

You know do know that sudden change of head height is a mitigating factor, right? So already accounted for in the framework. But sure we should be carding people for being tackled.
This is so wholly inaccurate it makes me laugh. SBW got carded in a Lion's match 2 years ago for these kind of hits. Barrett got carded in the Rugby Championship.

Yet world rugby have only just decided to start enforcing these rules.

What has happened is world rugby has introduced a framework to help explain and give some consistency to already existing laws. Few people have been carded for something that would not of been the same offence 4 years ago. We are just seeing a lot of players do some pretty boneheaded crap.

And i would say you dont seem to be able to understand any kind of nuance, there is a difference between SBW's stupid and reckless shoulder charge, something he decided to do and so had control over and those that are not adapting in time to a falling player, something they have far less control over

I would say you and I are much closer in thought than the OP and I but you seem incapable in seeing anything but your own belief. I only want to add to the exiting protection of player by saying consideration should be given to who had the most control over a situation

It's sad, i use to really like your posts, remember liking lots of them, but you seem to have developed a real chip on your shoulder against kiwis since the cricket final

I expect no reply other than to be blasted as stupid again

 

[Reiser99]

People seem to be missing some key points.

Tackling so you make contact with the head has never been legal. However it was not really enforced and so people became used to big hits, which have developed majorly over the last 10-15 years, where the player is forced back and momentum is stopped. Majority were around the chest, but quite a few hit the head. However unless it was serious it was seen as part of the tackle. However (and this is the key point) it also led to an increase in concussions and serious head injuries with extensive research highlighting that the majority of concussion occurred as a result of the tackle. Therefore WR had to act to protect the players and so they wouldn't be left open to law suits. (You choose which they cared more about). So they implemented their new rules and hoped things would change. It didn't and over the last 2 years players have continued to hit hard and around the chest, which can lead to high tackles and more concussions. Therefore because it wasn't changing WR had to get tough and didn't want to be seen to be soft on head injuries. So they made the new framework and asked the refs to rigidly enforce it during the world cup. The intention was that if players are aiming for the chest and end up hitting the player they will get a card of some kind and therefore players will realise they can't take the risk and will tackle lower. However players have been coached this way since they were young and so it's hard to change habits easily hence the number of cards. On top fans are so used to these big hits going unpunished (pundits too) that they seem to think they are acceptable.

There is no controversy about high tackles and the enforcement of the law ruining the game. It is not about stopping players tackling hard, but getting players to tackle lower and correctly to avoid the increasing number of head injuries. The controversy is that WR stupidly decided to get strict during the world cup and so detract from the main event. Instead of people discussing the games, they ended up discussing the high tackles.