Rugby is being ruined

[Cliffyboy]

Mate you seem unable to observe history which has shown we are the best, but we well I am not silly enough to believe we can't be beaten and it seems to me you might have the issue with kiwis and the ABs not us with the rest of the rugby world, I actually can't understand how my view on tackling has spiraled into a us and them thing.

The game has ch

The game has changed a bit since then I suppose

Again the game has chsn

the game has changed more into a rugby league type of defence and that's always been about the tackling into the chest I have played league for ages as well,

You really can't help yourself, can you? I made a complimentary comment about the All Blacks, and I've often used their extraordinary achievements given the country's population of around just 5 million, to show just how much the mind and self-belief can affect a person's performance. But, all to no avail, blindly you leap in, ego blazing on all fronts, as if determined to prove the orginal point I was making, that so many New Zealand rugby union lovers, seem to think that their intellects mirror or reflect the superiority of their team's performances over so many other countries, most with far greater populations. If you can't understand how this has spiralled into an 'us' and 'them' thing, try re-reading some of your posts.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

You really can't help yourself, can you? I made a complimentary comment about the All Blacks, and I've often used their extraordinary achievements given the country's population of around just 5 million, to show just how much the mind and self-belief can affect a person's performance. But, all to no avail, blindly you leap in, ego blazing on all fronts, as if determined to prove the orginal point I was making, that so many New Zealand rugby union lovers, seem to think that their intellects mirror or reflect the superiority of their team's performances over so many other countries, most with far greater populations. If you can't understand how this has spiralled into an 'us' and 'them' thing, try re-reading some of your posts.

once again...you and him...leave the rest of us out of his blinding ego

 

[bushytop]

You really can't help yourself, can you? I made a complimentary comment about the All Blacks, and I've often used their extraordinary achievements given the country's population of around just 5 million, to show just how much the mind and self-belief can affect a person's performance. But, all to no avail, blindly you leap in, ego blazing on all fronts, as if determined to prove the orginal point I was making, that so many New Zealand rugby union lovers, seem to think that their intellects mirror or reflect the superiority of their team's performances over so many other countries, most with far greater populations. If you can't understand how this has spiralled into an 'us' and 'them' thing, try re-reading some of your posts.

To be fair to @Tony vellere if you read a bit further through the thread I think he gets what you were trying to say now bud.

 

[The_Wol]

Last time Rugby was being ruined was when South Africa was winning games simply by kicking 47 penalties and drop goals.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Last time Rugby was being ruined was when South Africa was winning games simply by kicking 47 penalties and drop goals.

Last time we did that, especially the drop goals, Australia won the world cup, and they beat us because Stephen Larkham won the semi-final against us with... A DROP GOAL...

 

[The_Wol]

Last time we did that, especially the drop goals, Australia won the world cup, and they beat us because Stephen Larkham won the semi-final against us with... A DROP GOAL...

2007 - 2013 was also a good year for drop goals

 

[TRF_heineken]

2007 - 2013 was also a good year for drop goals

That had more to do with individuals, like Frans Steyn, and he did it from 60m out...

But yeah we did kick a lot of penalties in that period, but that's because we had 2 snipers, in Percy Montgomery and Morne Steyn.

 

[Tony vellere]

This is the point I was trying make. You weren't taught correctly. Tackling should be waist height maximum. However players developed chest high tackles to stop the offloads and those hits that ended up high weren't punished, so they knew they could get away with it. However this has led to an increase in head collisions, concussions and head related injuries. The whole point is to get players tackling lower again. You can still do a big hit, just lower.

As I said the issue is the way WR has gone about implementing the changes and as yes as pointed out the consistency in the decisions, both on the field and in the citing office.

Mate I think you'll find I was taught to tackle round the bootlaces as a small fella but as we got bigger and stronger the tackle area became the breast bone leading with the sholder and to wrap the arms

 

[bushytop]

Mate I think you'll find I was taught to tackle round the bootlaces as a small fella but as we got bigger and stronger the tackle area became the breast bone leading with the sholder and to wrap the arms

That's definitely the way it went but I'd imagine the tackle training will be modified a wee bit world wide after this World Cup.

 

[Nubiwan]

Mate I have been born and breed rugby but now it frustrates me to watch how soft some players are and how much they talk to the ref the Irish are the worst for that you watch Rory best and tell me it's rugby.
Then players try and milk a soft hit

For a split second during the France Wales game I was in horror as one of the players rather over elaborated his facial injury, from what was rather a simple tap. It is starting to happen a lot. People get a knock in the face and, next thing, they are appealing to the ref, and drawing little square TMO boxes FFS. What ever happened to showing the opposition they cant hurt you.

The excuse I am reading here is that I cant except change..... Horse cookies. "When ships were built of wood and men made of steel." Never truer spoken. Its happening to rugby "now". Never been in favour of a goon show, and dirty play, but sometimes it is what it is. Rugby after all. Also, I was hardly ever some hardcase player either, but understood the nature of the game is that I might require a stitch or a couple of plates in my body after a cup final. If you consider yourself a rugby player, and never broke at least 5 fingers, broke your nose, have a couple of plates in your body, or had a knee recontstructed, then you must've been a winger....

Honestly thought I was watching the Champions League for a second, not a rugby world cup. The horror!

 

[Nubiwan]

Mate I think you'll find I was taught to tackle round the bootlaces as a small fella but as we got bigger and stronger the tackle area became the breast bone leading with the sholder and to wrap the arms

Indeed, ball and all. I trust it is called.

 

[Nubiwan]

Because players who will be diagnosed with CTE will sue their unions/clubs/World Rugby... and if Rugby is seen to be doing nothing about it, Rugby will lose... every case. Hence, they be doing something about it!

They could make players sign a waiver..... inside their professional contracts... exonerating (?) the union from any potential for injury. I mean, you are going to play rugby lad.

Is this the real reason the IRB is doing this?

What about at the amateur or even local club level where there is no TMO nor video evidence to enforce this action? Now you introduce inequality. Ambuguity. Unfairness.

 

[Nubiwan]

That is somewhat of a leap as many of the tackles we are seeing given cards are not even remotely dangerous they simply fall under a very broad interpretation of a law.

There is a vast difference between doing 41kmph through a school zone (speed limit is 40kmph here) and 160kmph and the punishment shouldn't be the same but what we are seeing currently at this world cup a one punishment fits all approach and I believe it has detracted from the spectacle of the tournament as a whole.

Exactly..... Needs to be some common sense applied at TMO and Ref level. A fella hits an opponent in the head, who has just slipped or ducked into a tackle, cant be responsible for the lad slipping, now can he? How is he supposed to "control" that? Just tough luck!

 

[ncurd]

They could make players sign a waiver.....

Is this the real reason they are doing this?

Getting players to sign a waiver that if they suffer long term physical and psychological problems due to their job its not their employers fault that they were not suffciently protected.

Somehow I don't think such a waiver will be legally binding....

You do write some utter horseshit.

 

[duncanb]

I don't take the premise rugby is being ruined by the newer tackle interpretation.
Players coaches must adapt ,look at curry and underhill they going much lower than before even chief culprit Farrell is changing.
What is ruining Rugby is companies buying huge chunks of it how long they set the agenda not our clubs unions or world rugby.
This is of concern to me more than tackle laws.

 

[Nubiwan]

Fellas he's right Max Brito most certainly isn't a quadriplegic from injuries sustained in the 1995 RWC, Halley Appleby didn't pass away from injuries sustained in a game, Charlie Fetoai didn't have to end his career aged 23 because of a serious neck injury.

Injuries only started happening this year.

Sorry for my ignorance, but where these injuries sustained as a result of dirty or foul play? I honestly do not know. I am wondering of their relavance to high tackles or late hits, or dirty play.

Permanent injury in any sport is terrible. The only quadruplegic injury I know from rugby happened in a collapsed scrum. Any deaths or similar injuries, I have read about, were resulting from accident on the field, not people getting hit high or late.

This from a lad who has a plate on his jaw after a very late tackle.......

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We're discussing high tackles here, concussion is the most obvious concern and a common result of illegal hits like this. In the vast majority of cases any single concussion isn't going to have long term effects, CTE is the result of multiple concussions earlier in life, so in a sport where there are plenty of ways within the rules to get yourself a concussion or give someone else one (all accidental of course) why on earth would we go easy on an illegal action that can result in concussions?

 

[The_Wol]

Sorry for my ignorance, but where these injuries sustained as a result of dirty or foul play? I honestly do not know. I am wondering of their relavance to high tackles or late hits, or dirty play.

Permanent injury in any sport is terrible. The only quadruplegic injury I know from rugby happened in a collapsed scrum. Any deaths or similar injuries, I have read about, were resulting from accident on the field, not people getting hit high or late.

This from a lad who has a plate on his jaw after a very late tackle.......

Max Brito at the 1995 RWC was a Ivory Coast winger, who ran into the Tongans originally the tackle was cited as the reason he was made a quadriplegic, but it was the way the players landed on him in the ruck, his head got caught and his neck got broken.


Halley Appleby ran into a hard tackle, my friend was playing on the same team as him, the tackle was safe but hard, he had a whiplash like motion which caused a bone defect (Spurs on his spine) to cut an artery causing him to die pretty much on the spot. If he were in a car crash or any situation that could have caused whiplash at any point in his life the outcome would have likely been the same.
https://www.couriermail.com.au/news...6b4ff730e?sv=cdeebce5d6c413d52741242bf7e8d8b5

I was at the Sunnybank game where Charlie Fetoai got taken past the horizontal and dumped, but I can't say if he landed on the head which caused the injury or if it was the ruck as it was a very quick formed ruck and a player easily could have landed on him with his head caught (again with no instant replay and not really 100% focused on Charlie Fetoai running the ball I can't speculate as to whether it was the tackle or the players entering the ruck as the tackle was still in motion) He was lucky though, he simply had a spinal shock though he had to relearn how to walk.
https://www.news.com.au/news/reliev...2919bc1f3?sv=93857d10443cb41cbe279c0297c9022f

 

[Rinkadink]

They could make players sign a waiver..... inside their professional contracts... exonerating (?) the union from any potential for injury

A lot of your posts are pap but I think this needs to happen at some point, but there needs to be a cevat that the club/union/governing body must provide suitable care, attention and rehab or be liable for legal action.

See what's going on with Sale where players were allegedly forced/encouraged to play with concussions and the like. That shite, if true, is unacceptable. An accident however, is just that and the sporting entity(?) should not be liable unless there is a failing in preventative measures (WR have done this in the laws regarding high tackles for example) or failing in medical procedures, concussion protocol, etc.

It is a tough sport and of course we don't want to lessen the physicality, but we do need to make it as reasonably safe as possible. Surely you can see that?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A lot of your posts are pap but I think this needs to happen at some point, but there needs to be a cevat that the club must provide suitable care, attention and rehab or be liable for legal action.

See what's going on with Sale where players were allegedly forced/encouraged to play with concussions and the like. That shite, if true, is unacceptable. An accident however, is just that and the club should not be liable unless there is a failing in preventative measures (WR have done this in the laws regarding high tackles for example) or failing in medical procedures, concussion protocol, etc.

It is a tough sport and of course we don't want to lessen the physicality, but we do need to make it as reasonably safe as possible.

That's already the case, no need for a waiver to do it. Volentia non fit injuria is the common law principle that governs this, it essentially means that you are aware of the reasonably foreseeable risks in your contract of employment and won't be able to claim damages for them i.e a broken arm in rugby isn't actionable but if someone slammed a door against your arm in the office you'd have a claim. Now in rugby they employer assumes control of recovery which is why rehab must be properly followed and why it's so important when it comes to the risks surrounding concussion.

What this space cowboy wants is for players to accept an even greater degree of risk to allow more lenient laws surrounding foul play. Firstly it's virtually impossible legally, volentia non fit injuria can't extend beyond what is reasonable even if expressly agreed in most common law jurisdictions, and definitely not in England & Wales, NI or Ireland. Secondly it's so blatantly unethical that any player in their right mind would stop playing and any fan with an ounce of compassion would boycott.