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Rugby is being ruined

ncurd

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A lot of your posts are pap but I think this needs to happen at some point, but there needs to be a cevat that the club/union/governing body must provide suitable care, attention and rehab or be liable for legal action.
An employer has a legal duty of care to its employee's. As long as it can be proven they provided suitable mitigation to prevent such an injury occuring they will already be suitable covered.

Think of it this way, if I work in an environment with suitable noise my employer must provide me with suitable ear defense. If I choose to forgoe that defense that is my decision as an individual. If use the gear and still develop hearing problem I cannot sue my employers for not providing adequate ear defense if they did so. What they cannot do is require me to sign away my right to adequate ear defense and if they were to do so said contract would not be considered legally binding.
 

Amiga500

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Just had a thought on what might lower tackle height.

Proper application of the existing laws. When a player is tackled and their knees have hit the deck - they aren't allowed to pop the ball up to a team-mate. To do so is a penalty against.

Let them roll it back along the ground, but they cannot throw it in any way, shape or form.


Therefore a tackler doesn't have to worry *quite so much* about the offload if they can bring the tackled player to ground quicker.
 

The Alpha Bro

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Just had a thought on what might lower tackle height.

Proper application of the existing laws. When a player is tackled and their knees have hit the deck - they aren't allowed to pop the ball up to a team-mate. To do so is a penalty against.

Let them roll it back along the ground, but they cannot throw it in any way, shape or form.


Therefore a tackler doesn't have to worry *quite so much* about the offload if they can bring the tackled player to ground quicker.
You're dead right here, not going to be popular among the kiwis though!
 

Which Tyler

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Proper application of the existing laws.
What an original, and horrifying idea.
I fully support it, mush asni have since the first ELVs in what? 2006?

It would make an absolute mess of rugby for a couple of months, before teams realized that they could win quite easily by not cheating, not being penalised, and keeping 15 players on the pitch. At which point, we could then look at how the game is actually played, and tinker from there.
Every ignored law, or instruction on interpretation has massive follow-on effects. Lets see which aren't fit for purpose, and clarify in law what I tpretations should actually be.
 

TRF_heineken

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Just had a thought on what might lower tackle height.

Proper application of the existing laws. When a player is tackled and their knees have hit the deck - they aren't allowed to pop the ball up to a team-mate. To do so is a penalty against.

Let them roll it back along the ground, but they cannot throw it in any way, shape or form.


Therefore a tackler doesn't have to worry *quite so much* about the offload if they can bring the tackled player to ground quicker.
is that the law though? I was taught that when you go to ground you either place the ball back or pop it for a player on a support run.

that’s not necessarily an offload as your back is towards the opposition and you’re looking back to your teammates.

your idea could work yes. But then we have the fetchers coming back in play and try to steal the ball as soon as the ball carrier goes to ground.
 

Amiga500

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is that the law though? I was taught that when you go to ground you either place the ball back or pop it for a player on a support run.
Ah, it seems I stand corrected.

13.1. Players, who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball, must immediately:
  1. Get up with the ball; or
  2. Play (but not kick) the ball; or
  3. Release the ball.
    Sanction: Penalty.

So I'd reword (2) to "Place (but not kick) the ball"
 

Rinkadink

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@The Alpha Bro

Legend. Does that only apply to UK/Ireland though? Was thinking of how NFL players sued, although I'm not familiar with how it all works.

Other than that
What this space cowboy wants is for players to accept an even greater degree of risk to allow more lenient laws surrounding foul play
Yeah that's not what I was implying at all, he's back to total pap then. Thanks for explanation.
 

themole25

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@The Alpha Bro

Legend. Does that only apply to UK/Ireland though? Was thinking of how NFL players sued, although I'm not familiar with how it all works.

Other than that

Yeah that's not what I was implying at all, he's back to total pap then. Thanks for explanation.
assumption of risk while playing a sport is a thing in American Tort Law.

The issue with the NFL is that the NFL knew the dangers of playing football but hid that information from the players and went on a campaign to make players believe the opposite of the truth.
 

The Alpha Bro

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@The Alpha Bro

Legend. Does that only apply to UK/Ireland though? Was thinking of how NFL players sued, although I'm not familiar with how it all works.

Other than that

Yeah that's not what I was implying at all, he's back to total pap then. Thanks for explanation.
I can't say for certain but I imagine something similar is in place in the US.

I'm not too clued in on the NFL's troubles (@big ginger 8 or @themole25 might be the men to ask there) but I imagine it comes down to failing their duty of care in terms of rehab from concussion. If an employer was to follow every step reasonably possible at the time of the injuries, which is essentially anything available to the public for the incredibly rich NFL, and CTE could still not be stopped they'd be fine in Ireland or the UK anyway and it seems unfair for this not to be the way but the US does seem to offer the individual a bit more protection in court. (Although its counteracted and then some through court being far less accessible to your average citizen) I imagine what happened is they either ignored it to get players on the pitch and/or the standard set for medical teams was deemed insufficient by the law.

Edit:The mole got there.
 

TRF_heineken

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assumption of risk while playing a sport is a thing in American Tort Law.

The issue with the NFL is that the NFL knew the dangers of playing football but hid that information from the players and went on a campaign to make players believe the opposite of the truth.
A47651C0-E248-4C54-A3ED-30EFEFA67B83.gif
 

Which Tyler

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assumption of risk while playing a sport is a thing in American Tort Law.

The issue with the NFL is that the NFL knew the dangers of playing football but hid that information from the players and went on a campaign to make players believe the opposite of the truth.
Informed consent and all that.
 

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I can't say for certain but I imagine something similar is in place in the US.

I'm not too clued in on the NFL's troubles (@big ginger 8 or @themole25 might be the men to ask there) but I imagine it comes down to failing their duty of care in terms of rehab from concussion. If an employer was to follow every step reasonably possible at the time of the injuries, which is essentially anything available to the public for the incredibly rich NFL, and CTE could still not be stopped they'd be fine in Ireland or the UK anyway and it seems unfair for this not to be the way but the US does seem to offer the individual a bit more protection in court. (Although its counteracted and then some through court being far less accessible to your average citizen) I imagine what happened is they either ignored it to get players on the pitch and/or the standard set for medical teams was deemed insufficient by the law.

Edit:The mole got there.
It came down in a big part to the fact that the NFL outright denied their sport caused lasting head injuries.
 

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They could make players sign a waiver..... inside their professional contracts... exonerating (?) the union from any potential for injury. I mean, you are going to play rugby lad.

Is this the real reason the IRB is doing this?

What about at the amateur or even local club level where there is no TMO nor video evidence to enforce this action? Now you introduce inequality. Ambuguity. Unfairness.
In New Zealand at least an employer cant sign away health and safety responsibility, directors of a company have for a few years been personally responsible for H&S issues...as in they can be personally charged if someone is injured on the job

a waiver might cover going bungy jumping or sky diving...its meaningless when its your job

You're dead right here, not going to be popular among the kiwis though!
i just think the last thing the game needs is more laws or more complicated ones...

the more i think about it the more i think teams might just need to accept they have to tackle the waist and the ball gets offloaded...we'll just have to come up defensive screens that cover the offload...no more rules...just accept the game will be different and adapt
 
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Amiga500

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the more i think about it the more i think teams might just need to accept they have to tackle the waist and the ball gets offloaded...we'll just have to come up defensive screens that cover the offload...no more rules...just accept the game will be different and adapt
There is a bit of a problem though with players ducking into tackles.

I accept getting lower for better legdrive - but other players carrying the ball into contact in ridiculous fashion[1] is more putting themselves in danger than the tackler.

[1]for instance Jacob Stockdale dropping into the tackle that got the Samoan hooker, Seilala Lam, yellow carded
 

ncurd

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There is a bit of a problem though with players ducking into tackles.

I accept getting lower for better legdrive - but other players carrying the ball into contact in ridiculous fashion[1] is more putting themselves in danger than the tackler.

[1]for instance Jacob Stockdale dropping into the tackle that got the Samoan hooker, Seilala Lam, yellow carded
I think it might be the only point I disagreed with new portocols. Basically if a tackler is clearly making tackle and has got to blow waist height of the shortest player on the pitch they shouldn't be carded.
 

Amiga500

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I think it might be the only point I disagreed with new portocols. Basically if a tackler is clearly making tackle and has got to blow waist height of the shortest player on the pitch they shouldn't be carded.
If the tackler has his shoulders less than a metre off the ground, I would consider that a genuine attempt to get low. If that is not low enough, then I put the blame onto the tackled player.

Might be worth the IRB looking at it.
 

ncurd

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If the tackler has his shoulders less than a metre off the ground, I would consider that a genuine attempt to get low. If that is not low enough, then I put the blame onto the tackled player.

Might be worth the IRB looking at it.
I don't ever want apportion blame to the tackled player but there is a point where protections should no longer be afforded.
 

Amiga500

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I don't ever want apportion blame to the tackled player but there is a point where protections should no longer be afforded.
By blame, I don't necessarily mean sanctioned.

Although perhaps it should.

After all - if someone jumps to catch a ball in the air - and purposefully put their knee into the head of a player who has remained on the ground...
 

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Just had a thought on what might lower tackle height.

Proper application of the existing laws. When a player is tackled and their knees have hit the deck - they aren't allowed to pop the ball up to a team-mate. To do so is a penalty against.

Let them roll it back along the ground, but they cannot throw it in any way, shape or form.


Therefore a tackler doesn't have to worry *quite so much* about the offload if they can bring the tackled player to ground quicker.
That was the la
Just had a thought on what might lower tackle height.

Proper application of the existing laws. When a player is tackled and their knees have hit the deck - they aren't allowed to pop the ball up to a team-mate. To do so is a penalty against.

Let them roll it back along the ground, but they cannot throw it in any way, shape or form.


Therefore a tackler doesn't have to worry *quite so much* about the offload if they can bring the tackled player to ground quicker.
 
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