Rugby players kicking gridiron

[OSU Blue]

As I sit here watching the NFL playoffs, and all the field goals missed in the 40-50 yard range, I wonder if anyone has seen a professional rugby player kick field goals with a gridiron ball and style, and how well they did?? Or if any decent rugby kickers here have tried it. Because I know with a rugby ball I could do what they're doing with a football, so it seems it would be much harder or they would be recruiting ruggers to do their kicking. Any experience with this??

 

[dullonien]

Quite a few rugby players have been approached into American Football as field goal kickers. If I remember correctly Neil Jenkins was linked with such a position, as was Chris Patterson more recently. I'm not sure of any names that have definitely done so, but there certainly have been a few.

 

[A Crappy Winger]

I know they take AFL players as punters also. There's a couple of the older players punting in the NFL who are at the end of their careers at the moment I think

 

[MunsterMan]

Not too long ago there were rumours of Ronan O'Gara signing a 2 million dollars a year contract with the Miami Dolphins, but it was all just part of a plan to get more money out of the IRFU during contract renegotiation.

 

[Boggle]

Well Gary Anderson was born and raised in South Africa and learned how to kick field goals with a rugby ball, they eventually moved to the US
and he turned into the NFLs most prolific kicker of all time, during the 1998 season he didn't miss a kick.

Naas also tried out for the Dallas cowboys if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Prestwick]

Theres always talk about why its more difficult to kick with the American football because of the pointed ends and the slightly more streamlined shape compared to that of a Rugby Union, League or even Aussie Rules football. All three of the latter have blunt ends and are much fatter which makes kicking easier.

Note that Canadian Football still uses the drop kick but its only seen as a very very very last resort in the dying seconds when nothing else is on. It is still theoretically possible to use it in the NFL..in fact the last time it was used:

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[Wally]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 18 2010, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Theres always talk about why its more difficult to kick with the American football because of the pointed ends and the slightly more streamlined shape compared to that of a Rugby Union, League or even Aussie Rules football. All three of the latter have blunt ends and are much fatter which makes kicking easier.

Note that Canadian Football still uses the drop kick but its only seen as a very very very last resort in the dying seconds when nothing else is on. It is still theoretically possible to use it in the NFL..in fact the last time it was used:[/b]

What's a drop kick worth?

 

[A Crappy Winger]

The same as a field goal. 3 points in play, 1 point after the TD.

 

[Prestwick]

Ahoy, Wally! Thar lies y'answer, starboard bow!

 

[Wally]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (A Crappy Winger @ Jan 19 2010, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The same as a field goal. 3 points in play, 1 point after the TD.[/b]

So you'd only use it if there wasn't enough time to set up a field goal?

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah exactly. Its more used in Canadian Football but only as a last second attempt when theres no hope of getting the TD.

 

[GJ#1]

I remember watching a video kicking masterclass by Wilkinson and how he uses NFL balls to place kick, he explained the reason for this that it had a smaller sweet spot and therefore required more concentration to kick the ball over the posts!

 

[A Crappy Winger]

I dunno, I doubt there'd be much difference in time. Cause unless you had a guy on the field who could drop kick (and not many can in gridiron), then they'd have to send the special team out anyway, so it'd be a moot point. I've seen a documentary on Doug Flutie (the guy who kicked the droppie in the video above) and he said that the drop kick was basically used for a surprise. The defense would be thrown off by no holder for the kick, and either react slowly or set up a normal defense, meaning that the kicker has more time to kick, and less chance of it being blocked.

Don't quote me but I think that's why!

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GJ#1 @ Jan 19 2010, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I remember watching a video kicking masterclass by Wilkinson and how he uses NFL balls to place kick, he explained the reason for this that it had a smaller sweet spot and therefore required more concentration to kick the ball over the posts![/b]

Plus also you get much more uneven bounce from an NFL/CFL ball.

Its interesting to see Doug's body posture compared to rugby fly-halves who seem to have a completely different technique. He's really upright and stiff (although that may be the padding) and it looks like he's just half-heartedly booting the ball but it does go quite a way!!!

Edit: Don't ask me how I know that. Last time I bounced a sports ball I managed to remove my ability to reproduce for an hour...

 

[A Crappy Winger]

Thats how most kickers have their posture, really upright. I watch quite a bit of NFL and most of the goal kickers are really upright when they kick, it doesn't seem as fluid as a rugby kicker! But they can hack it a fair way

 

[Prestwick]

Yeah definitely, you see them punt the ball a fair way back into what would be deed in the opposition 22. What makes it more dissapointing is that the receiving side rarely make much ground back which means that they start the drive miles from the opposition end zone.

God if only someone could send a rugby league coach over there to teach proper offloading in the tackle and side-stepping with the aim of trying to make a rugby style offload into a kind of ultra dynamic handoff.

Yes, I know NFL/CFL is completely different with just a single forward pass, unlimited lateral passes and handoffs but the number of times I've seen a guy take the ball from the quarterback, rush and make a good number of yards only to get nailed while supporting players, some of whom are eligible receivers, mill about around him as he gets dog piled. I swear watching gridiron is like watching a game of Left 4 Dead 2 with one single player and everyone else are computer controlled: You're getting the crap kicked out of you while your computer "buddies" mill around babbling away and shooting trees.

 

[fcukernaut]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jan 19 2010, 05:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah exactly. Its more used in Canadian Football but only as a last second attempt when theres no hope of getting the TD.[/b]

Um not quite. I didn't recall seeing one in the last 10 years, did a quick google search 1973 was the last purposely kicked drop goal in the CFL.

As for the lateral, well, I remember one with the rams involving Torry Holt and I think Issac Bruce when they had a two on one that went for a touchdown. Other than that you have to look at college foootball with the use of the option offense but it's still only one pass from QB to usually the RB and it happens mostly in the backfield.

 

[Prestwick]

A few of my Canadian mates who are big Alouette fans keep bringing up the drop kick as a way of seperating CFL from NFL so I've been getting it from there.

I've seen good lateral plays like what you've mentioned but like you said its still highly structured and very limited. Even though there are only 11 - 12 players on the field depending who are on your side the narrow nature of the pitch surely means that you can create some chances?

 

[A Crappy Winger]

Yeah there is the odd lateral play! You don't see it much though. Search Cal vs Stanford, 1982. Everyone regards it as such an incredible play when its simply draw and pass to us rugby guys xD

The lateral is really an unused weapon in NFL/CFL. Although there are occasionally really good return men, they are few and far between and if the lateral could be used with more technique (read: Americans need to learn how to pass backwards!) then I think also that it'd be deadly. It's really seen as a sort of desperate, last gasp play if it involves a lateral. The coaches and I guess players too view it as too unsafe. But I mean we've all played around with American Footballs, they aren't that hard to pass backwards! Untapped potential there.

As for the league coach, I dunno how much good he could do! When a player has their knee on the ground the play is considered dead. And the hits are so different in NFL, its not to wrap up the ball or stop the offload its to put the guy down. All about stopping them getting yards. In a semi-decent tackle the ballcarrier usually ends up down.

It's funny how different their evasive techniques are because of this though. Being as the game is all about yardage, the defense is always rushing up on the ballcarrier, to reduce the gain. It always strikes me that it must be much easier to evade in NFL than rugby! Imagine how well we'd do if the defensive line was constantly sprinting at us, sidesteps would be way easier, a small adjustment and bye bye defence. But thats just what I think anyway haha

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (A Crappy Winger @ Jan 21 2010, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It's funny how different their evasive techniques are because of this though. Being as the game is all about yardage, the defense is always rushing up on the ballcarrier, to reduce the gain. It always strikes me that it must be much easier to evade in NFL than rugby! Imagine how well we'd do if the defensive line was constantly sprinting at us, sidesteps would be way easier, a small adjustment and bye bye defence. But thats just what I think anyway.[/b]

Thats where I'm thinking where the League or at the very least a good attack coach would come in handy. You see the defense get such a huge head start on the poor ball carrier but then you think "wait, if that were Shane Williams, he'd just step inside and then he'd be away."

Then again, poor Shane would only have to be hit once and he'd be in intensive care for the rest of his career :lol: