Rugby World Cup 2019 Japan will be the Worst Wcup ever in history.

[Nielsch]

I don't understand who accepted the bidding process for japan to be allowed to host the rugby world cup? Its not fair to other countries. I guess the IRB got paid off to allow this to happen in the wrong atmosphere. Argentina has been bidding and they still don't have a concluded date. Argentina deserves the World cup! You can even see when the pumas play the rugby championship in Argentina the stadiums are overflowing of spectators.

Sorry but Argentina never made a bid to host the RWC so this is nonsense.

 

[malamute4rugby]

Not what i read. They have been trying but the irb has been saying they don't have a professional league but they have a huge amateur league over 1000 teams at high level! Grab any first division amateur team from buenos and they would crush japan's best. So the nonsense is japan and you.

 

[smartcooky]

Now that Japan has the RWC for 2019, it needs to be supported and gotten behind for the good of the game, but I was opposed to it going there in the first place.

IMO, the Rugby World Cup is the jewel in the crown of international rugby. It is not, never has been, and never should be, used as a development tournament. There are other, more effective, and less expensive ways to grow the game in a region.

For example, the iRB needs to put the IRB Pacific Nations Championship in the official June international window so that their team's best players are available (and the iRB must maintain the integrity of the competition by insisting that players are released from their clubs & provinces to play).

Alternatively, they could run something like FIFA's Confederations Cup every four years (two years shifted from the RWC) with Tier 2 and Tier 3 full strength teams competing, and perhaps development teams from Tier 1 nations.

 

[norcalbuff]

Not what i read. They have been trying but the irb has been saying they don't have a professional league but they have a huge amateur league over 1000 teams at high level! Grab any first division amateur team from buenos and they would crush japan's best. So the nonsense is japan and you.

Bids for 2015 and 2019 were done at the same time. From Wiki:

[h=3]Submission of interest[edit][/h]The International Rugby Board requested that any member unions wishing to host this tournament or the 2019 Rugby World Cup should indicate their interest by 15 August 2008. This would be purely to indicate interest; no details had to be provided at this stage. A record ten unions indicated formal interest in hosting the 2015 and/or the 2019 events: Australia, England, Ireland, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Russia, Scotland, South Africa and Wales.[4]​ Argentina had been reported in early 2008 as having given preliminary consideration to bidding,[5]​ but did not ultimately formally indicate an interest in bidding.
Of the 10 nations that had expressed formal interest, many withdrew their candidacy in early 2009. Jamaica was the first to withdraw its candidacy.[6]​ Russia withdrew in February 2009 to concentrate on bidding for the 2013 Rugby World Cup Sevens,[7]​ Australia and Ireland withdrew in spring 2009 due to financial reasons.[8]​[9]​ Scotland withdrew in April 2009 after they were unable to secure co-hosting partners for the tournament.[10]​ Wales was the last nation to officially pull out after they failed to submit a bid by 8 May 2009,[11]​ but Wales backed England's bid and some games will be played at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium.[12]​

However, it is true that Argentina needs professional rugby, whether that is a domestic pro league or a couple Super Rugby franchises. The situation with the European clubs and the Rugby Championship is not sustainable long term.

 

[norcalbuff]

Now that Japan has the RWC for 2019, it needs to be supported and gotten behind for the good of the game, but I was opposed to it going there in the first place.

IMO, the Rugby World Cup is the jewel in the crown of international rugby. It is not, never has been, and never should be, used as a development tournament. There are other, more effective, and less expensive ways to grow the game in a region.

For example, the iRB needs to put the IRB Pacific Nations Championship in the official June international window so that their team's best players are available (and the iRB must maintain the integrity of the competition by insisting that players are released from their clubs & provinces to play).

Alternatively, they could run something like FIFA's Confederations Cup every four years (two years shifted from the RWC) with Tier 2 and Tier 3 full strength teams competing, and perhaps development teams from Tier 1 nations.

The IRB completely changed the format of the PNC this year. Rather than keeping the round robin they had last year, they've made it so that each team plays a grand total of 2 matches, with a "possible" European neutral venue championship match in November. It's a complete joke and the IRB clearly has and had no plan for this competition and how to make it viable.

 

[smartcooky]

The IRB completely changed the format of the PNC this year. Rather than keeping the round robin they had last year, they've made it so that each team plays a grand total of 2 matches, with a "possible" European neutral venue championship match in November. It's a complete joke and the IRB clearly has and had no plan for this competition and how to make it viable.

...which is a darned shame because when it was the "Epson Cup", the Pacific Rim Rugby tournament, all six teams played each other

1999
Japan 23 - 21 Canada, 1st May, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
Japan 44 - 17 Tonga, 8th May, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
Canada 29 - 40 Fiji, 15th May, Vancouver
USA 30 - 10 Tonga, 15th May, San Francisco
USA 25 - 14 Fiji, 22nd May, San Francisco
Japan 37 - 34 Samoa, 22nd May, Hanazono Stadium - Osaka
Canada 13 - 17 Samoa, 29th May, Vancouver
Fiji 16 - 9 Japan, 5th June, Latoka
Tonga 6 - 6 Samoa, 5th June, Apia
USA 31 - 47 Japan, 12th June, Honolulu
Canada 17 - 18 USA, 19th June, Toronto
Fiji 39 - 37 Tonga, 26th June, Nuku A'lofa
Samoa 27 - 20 USA, 26th June, Apia
Fiji 15 - 27 Samoa, 3rd July, Suva
Tonga 18 - 10 Canada, 3rd July, Nuku A'lofa

[TABLE="width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Team[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]P[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]W[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]L[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]A[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]B[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Pts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Japan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]160[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]119[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Samoa[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]111[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]91[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]USA[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]124[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]115[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fiji[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]124[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]127[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Tonga[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]88[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]129[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Canada[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]116[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


2000
Canada 29 - 11 Tonga, 20th May, Vancouver
Japan 22 - 47 Fiji, 20th May, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
Tonga 22 - 25 Fiji, 26th May, Nuku A'lofa
Japan 21 - 36 USA, 27th May, Hanazono Stadium - Osaka
Samoa 31 - 17 Fiji, 3rd June, Apia
Japan 25 - 26 Tonga, 3rd June, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
USA 34 - 25 Canada, 3rd June, New Hampshire - Manchester
Samoa 68 - 9 Japan, 10th June, Apia
Tonga 16 - 13 Samoa, 24th June, Nuku A'lofa
Fiji 37 - 21 USA, 30th June, Apia
Samoa 41 - 22 Canada, 1st July, Apia
Tonga 29 - 6 USA, 7th July, Nuku A'lofa
Fiji 42 - 11 Canada, 7th July, Apia
USA 12 - 19 Samoa, 15th July, San Francisco
Canada 62 - 18 Japan, 15th July, Markham

[TABLE="width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Team[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]P[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]W[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]L[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]A[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]B[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Pts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Samoa[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]76[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fiji[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]143[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]107[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Tonga[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]104[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]98[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]USA[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]109[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]128[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Canada[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]149[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]136[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Japan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]77[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]177[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

 

[RoosTah]

I correct your Japanese.

>ここで２０１９のラグビーワールドカップについて日本人の観点を伝えてありがとうございました。

ここで2019年のラグビーワールドカップについて日本人からの見方を伝えてくださってありがとうございました。

>私は５年前に日本に一年間ぐらい暮らして、doragononeが書いたこと直接に経験しました。日本では大学以外にラグビーが全然人気ありませんな。

Well, yes Rugby is a very college sport in Japan, but not only college Rugby but also high school Rugby is popular. Do you know the enthusiastic support for the Osaka Korean High School?

>しかし、一つの問題が外国人の選手が覆いすぎることが知りませんでした。 日本人にとっては日本代表ラグビーチームに海外の選手でることはまずいという意味ですか？

Not "覆い", but "多い".
Well, many people say that Japan's national team has too many non-Japanese players. But I think that there is no problem about that.
For me the big problem is Japan's jersey has Japan's national flag Hinomaru. Because of my hatred of Japanese imperialism, I cannot wear such a jersey.

ありがとうございました。残念ながら、大学を卒業してからだんだん日本語を忘れてきました。

私はシドニーに住んでいて、社会人です。応援しているチームはThe Sydney Roosters - NRL, The Waratahs (Super Rugby) and the Walllabies and Kangaroos (of course).

大阪韓国高校を聞いたことがありません。なんとか、高校によっては慶應義塾大学のような学校ですか？

Is the Japanese jersey really such an issue? It isn't really the Hinomaru - it's just red and white stripes... Don't most Japanese national teams wear red and white? I know soccer they wear blue (though I can't understand why), but most other sports I see Japan always wears red and white.

 

[norcalbuff]

...which is a darned shame because when it was the "Epson Cup", the Pacific Rim Rugby tournament, all six teams played each other

1999
Japan 23 - 21 Canada, 1st May, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
Japan 44 - 17 Tonga, 8th May, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
Canada 29 - 40 Fiji, 15th May, Vancouver
USA 30 - 10 Tonga, 15th May, San Francisco
USA 25 - 14 Fiji, 22nd May, San Francisco
Japan 37 - 34 Samoa, 22nd May, Hanazono Stadium - Osaka
Canada 13 - 17 Samoa, 29th May, Vancouver
Fiji 16 - 9 Japan, 5th June, Latoka
Tonga 6 - 6 Samoa, 5th June, Apia
USA 31 - 47 Japan, 12th June, Honolulu
Canada 17 - 18 USA, 19th June, Toronto
Fiji 39 - 37 Tonga, 26th June, Nuku A'lofa
Samoa 27 - 20 USA, 26th June, Apia
Fiji 15 - 27 Samoa, 3rd July, Suva
Tonga 18 - 10 Canada, 3rd July, Nuku A'lofa

[TABLE="width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Team[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]P[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]W[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]L[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]A[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]B[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Pts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Japan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]160[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]119[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Samoa[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]111[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]91[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]17[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]USA[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]124[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]115[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fiji[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]124[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]127[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]14[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Tonga[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]88[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]129[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Canada[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]90[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]116[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]


2000
Canada 29 - 11 Tonga, 20th May, Vancouver
Japan 22 - 47 Fiji, 20th May, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
Tonga 22 - 25 Fiji, 26th May, Nuku A'lofa
Japan 21 - 36 USA, 27th May, Hanazono Stadium - Osaka
Samoa 31 - 17 Fiji, 3rd June, Apia
Japan 25 - 26 Tonga, 3rd June, Chichibu Stadium - Tokyo
USA 34 - 25 Canada, 3rd June, New Hampshire - Manchester
Samoa 68 - 9 Japan, 10th June, Apia
Tonga 16 - 13 Samoa, 24th June, Nuku A'lofa
Fiji 37 - 21 USA, 30th June, Apia
Samoa 41 - 22 Canada, 1st July, Apia
Tonga 29 - 6 USA, 7th July, Nuku A'lofa
Fiji 42 - 11 Canada, 7th July, Apia
USA 12 - 19 Samoa, 15th July, San Francisco
Canada 62 - 18 Japan, 15th July, Markham

[TABLE="width: 500"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Team[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]P[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]W[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]D[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]L[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]A[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]B[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #000080, align: center"]Pts[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Samoa[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]172[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]76[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Fiji[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]143[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]107[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Tonga[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]104[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]98[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]USA[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]109[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]128[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Canada[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]149[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]136[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]Japan[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF, align: center"]5[/TD]
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Yep, that was obviously a much better competition format, although it was in an era with relatively few overseas pros for the nations involved. A competition lasting 2 months really couldn't happen today for any country involved other than Japan.

But the change in format from last year to this year really underlines the lack of vision the IRB had here. It's not like they didn't know that these problems existed and drastically changing the format of a competition after one year makes it hard to grow that competition into a commercially successful one. It gets even worse when there is no announced championship and the only possible championship would possibly take place 5 months later in a location far removed from any of the nations involved. It really wouldn't have been that bad if they had a schedule like this:

Pool A: USA, Canada, Japan
Pool B: Fiji, Tonga, Samoa

June 7th: Japan vs Canada, Fiji vs Tonga
June 14th: USA vs Japan, Tonga vs Samoa
June 21st: USA vs Canada, Fiji vs Samoa
June 28th (finals series in predetermined location): 1st Pool A vs 1st Pool B, 2nd Pool A vs 2nd Pool B, 3rd Pool A vs 3rd Pool B

This does a number of things. It makes it a real tournament that proceeds in a logical fashion that fans can get behind. It doesn't last so long that teams with professional players in Europe don't get a proper off-season (player burn out is a huge concern). It still allows for important Tier 1 visits like Scotland to North America this year. And if the tournament becomes commercially successful, the tournament can be expanded to round robin and players can get (larger) match payments.

But of course the IRB would rather just make random adjustments without any forethought and "reward" the winners with a neutral site match in North Wales.

 

[smartcooky]

Yep, that was obviously a much better competition format, although it was in an era with relatively few overseas pros for the nations involved. A competition lasting 2 months really couldn't happen today for any country involved other than Japan.

But the change in format from last year to this year really underlines the lack of vision the IRB had here. It's not like they didn't know that these problems existed and drastically changing the format of a competition after one year makes it hard to grow that competition into a commercially successful one. It gets even worse when there is no announced championship and the only possible championship would possibly take place 5 months later in a location far removed from any of the nations involved. It really wouldn't have been that bad if they had a schedule like this:

Pool A: USA, Canada, Japan
Pool B: Fiji, Tonga, Samoa

June 7th: Japan vs Canada, Fiji vs Tonga
June 14th: USA vs Japan, Tonga vs Samoa
June 21st: USA vs Canada, Fiji vs Samoa
June 28th (finals series in predetermined location): 1st Pool A vs 1st Pool B, 2nd Pool A vs 2nd Pool B, 3rd Pool A vs 3rd Pool B

This does a number of things. It makes it a real tournament that proceeds in a logical fashion that fans can get behind. It doesn't last so long that teams with professional players in Europe don't get a proper off-season (player burn out is a huge concern). It still allows for important Tier 1 visits like Scotland to North America this year. And if the tournament becomes commercially successful, the tournament can be expanded to round robin and players can get (larger) match payments.

But of course the IRB would rather just make random adjustments without any forethought and "reward" the winners with a neutral site match in North Wales.

There is no reason why the Pacific Nations Championship could not be run on the same general lines as a Rugby World Cup (with a host nation thereby cutting down travel costs) and in a similar fashion to the ITM cup (with short turnarounds) but with no finals.

Six teams takes five rounds with one of the "rounds" being split over three weeks and played midweek, so

Sat Sun - Round 1
Weds - 1st match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 2
Weds - 2nd match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 3
Weds - 3rd match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 4

The whole round-robin competition is done in 4 weeks.



Six Teams play five rounds with two

 

[LittleGuy]

There is no reason why the Pacific Nations Championship could not be run on the same general lines as a Rugby World Cup (with a host nation thereby cutting down travel costs) and in a similar fashion to the ITM cup (with short turnarounds) but with no finals.

Six teams takes five rounds with one of the "rounds" being split over three weeks and played midweek, so

Sat Sun - Round 1
Weds - 1st match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 2
Weds - 2nd match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 3
Weds - 3rd match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 4

The whole round-robin competition is done in 4 weeks.



Six Teams play five rounds with two

I was thinking of this the other day and the hosts could rotate between the three geographic areas, e.g. 2014 in North America, 2015 in the Pacific Islands, 2016 in Japan. It isn't ideal with the match congestion but would be useful to test squad depth. I had thought of the idea of psreading the matches over June and November but this simply results in these sides, essentially playing no one else aside from the RWC( and possibly qualifiers) which is just as untenable as the current formula.

 

[norcalbuff]

There is no reason why the Pacific Nations Championship could not be run on the same general lines as a Rugby World Cup (with a host nation thereby cutting down travel costs) and in a similar fashion to the ITM cup (with short turnarounds) but with no finals.

Six teams takes five rounds with one of the "rounds" being split over three weeks and played midweek, so

Sat Sun - Round 1
Weds - 1st match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 2
Weds - 2nd match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 3
Weds - 3rd match of Round 5
Sat Sun - Round 4

The whole round-robin competition is done in 4 weeks.



Six Teams play five rounds with two

I would have a couple problems with this format and a single host.

-This would basically eliminate any possibility of Tier 1 tours to the PNC countries as there simply isn't room in the calendar for both. I'd ditch the PNC before ditching these matches because they bring in a bunch of money for cash strapped unions, they create more publicity and excitement and they give us a good goal to aim for. Getting rid of them would be suicidal for USA Rugby and Rugby Canada.

-Tier 2 teams are already lacking for home test matches. Taking away home tests and making more neutral site tests worsens this situation.

That said, I'm not completely against partial single site hosting to cut down on costs and to make the travel easier as you point out. Places with large PI populations like San Francisco or Auckland are probably ideal for this as they have decent sized fanbases from multiple nations.

Having so many players in Europe for every side other than Japan makes this all really though, though. It will be a lot easier to do when North America gets its pro competition and if the PI players could be lured there or Japan instead of Europe.

We're wayyyy off topic now, but it's a good conversation so I hope we can keep it going.

 

[Nielsch]

I would have a couple problems with this format and a single host.

-This would basically eliminate any possibility of Tier 1 tours to the PNC countries as there simply isn't room in the calendar for both. I'd ditch the PNC before ditching these matches because they bring in a bunch of money for cash strapped unions, they create more publicity and excitement and they give us a good goal to aim for. Getting rid of them would be suicidal for USA Rugby and Rugby Canada.

-Tier 2 teams are already lacking for home test matches. Taking away home tests and making more neutral site tests worsens this situation.

That said, I'm not completely against partial single site hosting to cut down on costs and to make the travel easier as you point out. Places with large PI populations like San Francisco or Auckland are probably ideal for this as they have decent sized fanbases from multiple nations.

Having so many players in Europe for every side other than Japan makes this all really though, though. It will be a lot easier to do when North America gets its pro competition and if the PI players could be lured there or Japan instead of Europe.

We're wayyyy off topic now, but it's a good conversation so I hope we can keep it going.

What about playing these matches during the Six Nations / European Nations Cup window in February / March which leaves open June and November for Tier 1 vs. Tier 2 tests?

 

[norcalbuff]

What about playing these matches during the Six Nations / European Nations Cup window in February / March which leaves open June and November for Tier 1 vs. Tier 2 tests?

That's a really good window from an American perspective because it's not during football season and it's before MLB starts and before the NBA and NHL playoffs start. Really the only thing going on in American sports during that time is college basketball and that's only for 3 weekends in March.

The only problem I potentially see is that the Aviva Premiership (and a few other comps I think) still runs on some of the 6N weekends so the guys who aren't getting regular match time would have an opportunity to establish themselves better at the clubs as well as some of their value in signing with those clubs coming from their availability on those weekends. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be released, but it might make them and other Americans (same thing applies to the PI nations and Canada) less attractive signings in the future. As always, it's a balance. Also, I'd think playing in that window would likely mean it would be hosted in North America most years to cut down on travel to and from Europe.

But all in all, that is a good idea definitely worth investigating further.

 

[smartcooky]

What about playing these matches during the Six Nations / European Nations Cup window in February / March which leaves open June and November for Tier 1 vs. Tier 2 tests?

Err, February March in the Pacific Islands? Here is a clue why that might not be the best idea....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3f_Nt_nchw

November through to April is tropical cyclone season. Even without cyclones, the weather can be pretty bloody awful in the islands during monsoon season.

I think the best time would be during the first few weeks of the Rugby Championship... late July - early August

 

[sigesige00]

大阪韓国高校ではなく、大阪朝鮮高級学校です。「韓国」と「朝鮮」は、どちらも英語ではKoreaなので、英語の国の人にはわかりにくいかもしれませんね。
Republic of Koreaが「韓国」で、Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)が「朝鮮民主主義人民共和国」です。
大阪朝鮮高級学校は「朝鮮民主主義人民共和国」にidentifyするKoreans (朝鮮人)が運営している学校です。

私は貧しい学生です。もし可能なら、あなたの応援しているThe Sydney Roosters (NRL), The Waratahs (Super Rugby)のjerseysをプレゼントしていただくことはできますか？

日本代表のjerseyには、左袖(left sleeve)に小さな日の丸(Hinomaru)がついています。

Association Football (Soccer)の日本代表は、青いjerseyですが、このことの理由は、史料文献が残っていないために不明です。

 

[norcalbuff]

Err, February March in the Pacific Islands? Here is a clue why that might not be the best idea....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3f_Nt_nchw

November through to April is tropical cyclone season. Even without cyclones, the weather can be pretty bloody awful in the islands during monsoon season.

I think the best time would be during the first few weeks of the Rugby Championship... late July - early August

It would be unrealistic to expect players to be flying back and forth between Europe and the PIs multiple times in the space of 2 months anyway, so the Feb-March window would be more likely to see the tournament mostly held in North America due to its proximity to Europe.

Having the tournament played late July and August creates the issue of a never-ending season. Players need rest and the rest they get in Europe is already not enough. Add in June internationals and a July and August PNC and they would never get any rest. Argentina goes with an almost entirely different squad for the June tests and the Rugby Championship because of this. Splitting squads for the PNC and June tests for countries like Canada and the US is not realistic. We don't have the depth for that.

 

[flying tiger]

I don't understand who accepted the bidding process for japan to be allowed to host the rugby world cup? Its not fair to other countries. I guess the IRB got paid off to allow this to happen in the wrong atmosphere. Argentina has been bidding and they still don't have a concluded date. Argentina deserves the World cup! You can even see when the pumas play the rugby championship in Argentina the stadiums are overflowing of spectators.

It's obvious that you don't understand the bidding process for the RWC. A host is simply not awarded hosting status by the IRB as an act of charity or a gesture of goodwill. The process is competitive and the host has to pay upfront a significant amout of money in the form of a financial guarantee. Not only did Japan bid for and win the hosting rights they also PAID for the priviledge into the bargain.

Let me simplify it further, there are three things important in making decisons and they are money, money and more money. Now the IRB awarded the hosting rights in exchange for money so Japan is in a way getting what they paid for and hopefully getting a return on that investment. It's a business transaction or it should be considerd as such.

In Argentina's case they need financial assistance from the IRB for the HP program and a grant from them in the form of a one off payment to enter the RC because the UAR couldn't fund their own participation. No pro league, no semi pro league no means to put up a financial guarantee to host the RWC. The UAR is an on going expense not a source of revenue and should be considered as such end of discussion.

 

[flying tiger]

I agree with norcalbuff on this one guys and he is the only one that is presenting factual numbers to back up his claims.

Fact is, Japanese rugby playing numbers have remained largely stagnant for the past 10 years and they are not trending upwards while other Tier-2 nations are seeing a significant rise in playing numbers. USA in particular has seen extensive growth in participation numbers over the past five years and here in Canada our playing numbers have doubled nearly doubled since 2003 to a point where we now have more registered players then Italy and almost as many as Wales.

What I would also like to point out is Canada and the USA have more players then either Wales or Italy in the key area of "teen male player" which is where the real ability to unlock rugby talent is held. You all need to stop talking about a professional league being important for unearthing rugby talent because the fact is, it isn't all that important. What is really important is the number of players playing the sport and that their development is tier'ed and designed to be progressive at every level.

I will use ice hockey development as an example because being Canadian it is what I know best. Just so you are aware, professional ice hockey has nothing to do with the development of ice hockey in either Canada or the USA, the development of players is entirely separate and Hockey Canada and USA Hockey have zero affiliation with the NHL or any Minor-Pro League in Canada or the USA.

So who really develops ice hockey players in Canada or the USA? It is the minor hockey associations and their competitive leagues which are tier'ed by age and skill level and mutually support each other with scouting and player development. This all begins at about the age of 11 and 12 (What we call the PeeWee level of hockey) when ice hockey begins to become competitive and players are streamed into different levels of skill level (Peewee C, B, A, AA and AAA) with AAA being the most competitive and skilled league. At this point players will usually self-identify with the league of their skill level and while their may be some movement between individual divisions (A players moving to AA or AA players moving to AAA) at this point it is accepted that most players aren't going to get that much better then they already are.

What then happens is they progress through the age groups of PeeWee and Bantam all the way to Midget which is where players are divided further. Once you get to Midget (Age 15 to 17) hockey in Canada or the USA, this is where you decide if you are going to make a push to try and break into competitive hockey as an adult or if you are going to leave the competitive game and just play for fun. Midget AAA hockey in Canada is highly competitive and costs big money for parents of players who are playing. Nowhere in this time is professional hockey even being considered for the kids playing Midget AAA. What they are looking at is breaking in to Adult competitive hockey through either two routes, NCAA University Hockey in the USA and the Canadian Hockey League in Canada (Major Junior Hockey).

Both the CHL and NCAA hockey are highly competitive leagues for guys that are looking to become professional hockey players but need more development. It is also the first level of hockey that is subsidized i.e. the players don't play to play. Once you have toiled for a few years in Major Junior or the NCAA now maybe a professional team may have a look at you.

To show you how this development model works here are some stats for you:

http://www.cumberlandminorhockey.ca/to_the_nhl/chances.htm


So with these numbers you can deduce the following ratios:

Out of 30,000 hockey players born in 1975 and playing hockey in the province of Ontario:

132/30,000 will become competitive hockey players at the highest level of amateur hockey (NCAA or CHL) = 4.4/1000
56/30,000 were looked at (drafted/signed) by NHL teams = 1.9/1000
32/30,000 saw action in an NHL Game = 1.1/1000
38/30,000 will spend their career playing minor pro hockey = 1.3/1000
18/30,000 will earn a second NHL contract = 0.6/1000
6/30,000 will play a minimum of 400 games in NHL (truly elite players) = 0.2/1000


Now the reason I used these numbers was because I believe the same logic applies to rugby. Ice Hockey in Canada and the USA has an amateur development model and the professional game plays little role in developing players. So why do players continue to play? Obviously it is because the players are interested in the sport and want to become professional players? How do they go about doing this though? They do this by participating as they age through the various levels of the sport at an amateur level.

It must also be noted that it takes roughly ten years to develop someone into a professional caliber athlete, their are exceptions to the rule but for the most part this hold true. As popularity of rugby in both Canada and the USA has only recently begun to surge, those players that have begun playing the game have not had their 10 years to develop yet but I reckon by 2019 you will start to see the skill level of our national teams increase dramatically.

We used to believe in Canada that having a professional league was necessary for our national teams development and early attempts were made at creating a professional competition to the detriment of grass-roots rugby. Needless to say we no longer believe this and people in Canadian rugby circles will now tell you that grass roots rugby and development of a strong amateur rugby scene is where our primary focus is.

So what has Rugby Canada done over the past 10 years in order to further develop our rugby in this country:

- Created 4 Regional high performance academies (Langford, Edmonton, Toronto, St John's)
- Created a National high performance academy (Based in Langford, BC)
- Re-invigorated the National Age Grade Championships (Based on provincial model at U-14, U-16, U-18 level (used as a rugby talent identifier))
- Created the Canadian Rugby Championship (In order to bridge the gap between club rugby and international rugby)
- Encouraged clubs to actively promote youth rugby within the community
- Dramatically improved coaching and refereeing standards within Canada (Coaching and Refereeing are at a whole other level from when I played youth rugby)
- Invested in High School rugby (Almost every high school in Canada now has an active rugby program)
- Leveraged Social Media to promote the sport
- Secured government funding for our elite athletes
- Secured additional funding for our age-grade programs and national teams
- Signed a national TV deal with a major broadcaster for our National Team games

*Note it is a stated policy of Rugby Canada's to get certain players into professional setups in Europe. We now have 22 rugby players playing high level rugby in Europe and the Southern Hemisphere. However, Rugby Canada will advise the player to not go if they think the player will be better served remaining with the national team at our high performance academy. Athlete's are subsidized when they are at the National Academy.

I believe the USA is a few years behind us in setting their structures right but I firmly believe both countries are well on their way to breaking into the top 10 of world rugby. We have invested heavily in grass roots rugby and I believe we will soon begin to reap the rewards; however, it will take time and players will need to go through the relevant stages of development as amateurs before they become professional players.

An excellent post indeed and it actually touches upon a very important aspect that most people overlook when they argue that there should be a pro league. Development structures take the form of a pyramid and the top of the pyramid is not a fully pro league but a college level competition or minor league which act as feeders to the pro level above it.

It would be true if the pro league was a stand alone competition with no promotion/relegation . Rather what is needed in North America is a high level Rugby compeition for players progressing through the ranks which is amatuer or semi pro where they could develop further. Something along the lines of the Varsity Cup in the USA, high profile schools, a broadcast agreement in place and sponsorship and other revenues to make sure of it's sustainable or the CRC is another example. Such comps raise both the playing level and the profile of the sport, attract fans and offer players , coaches and officials something to aim for.

If the Varsity Cup is a success then another level could be added to above it in the form of a minor league then eventually a major league but the pyramid is built from the ground up not the other way. There is no pro league there because the foundations are not in place in terms of a tiered development structure all the way to the semi pro/minor league level. The Varsity Cup is important if they were to succeed then the next logical step is a pro league but a broadcaster would have to be onboard first and they wouldn't commit unless they were sure you could deliver a product. They are testing the waters now with the VC and CRC.

Lastly is there a college level Rugby comp in Canada or NCAA style conferences?

 

[malamute4rugby]

Good point fly tiger! Hahaha! Argentina is a financial mess. The problem with the UAR is they are just like the government of Argentina. Crooks! I hope Sanzar monitors the UAR officials especially the current president. He's leaving in March so I'm sure he will take as he can for personal use. Now pichot is being one of them and surely is on the take also. Thats why no one should give Argentina anything. But they still deserve the RWC over japan. Japan has no Rugby culture.

 

[jonny24]

Lastly is there a college level Rugby comp in Canada or NCAA style conferences?

The colleges don't go beyond provincial, and the universities only have CIS national women's rugby not mens.