RWC 2015 Organisers Consider Fan Segregation

[Thingimubob]

Anyone seen this?:

Rugby World Cup 2015 organisers are mulling over the idea of segregating fans at the tournament next year. No more mix’n’mingle, no more rubbing shoulders with the opposition, no more jibes and taunts and banter.

In football it has long been the norm to keep the hordes apart. Never the twain shall meet, unless it is in the High Court to face charges of mass mayhem. Only last week Ian Ritchie, the Rugby Football Union chief executive, was extolling the virtues of life on the Six Nations beat at Twickenham, where the English and Irish and Welsh sit side by side, with nary a copper in sight and no arrests on the charge sheet in years.

Full article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/10793355/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Organisers-consider-sitting-fans-in-rival-sections.html

I get why they're thinking about doing it, but I bloody hope they don't go through with it!

 

[Feicarsinn]

Get with it.

 

[Thingimubob]

Get with it.

Well that clears that up... Silly Telegraph stirring the pot as usual.

I really should pay more attention to Twitter.

 

[Da Grappla]

I hope strong opposition against this liberal-fascist (together at last, yes, they made it) idea

 

[SimonG]

The article makes a great case for it. The same paper had an article on how dead the atmosphere was at the last England test in autumn. Silence throughout.

Few key phrases.

"effort to improve atmosphere" (desperately required)

"No more mix’n’mingle, no more rubbing shoulders with the opposition, no more jibes and taunts and banter". (what jibes, taunts and banter?...folk chattering among themselves in bonhomie while the game is ongoing just adds to the dead atmosphere).

"In football it has long been the norm to keep the hordes apart. Never the twain shall meet"...Rugby has "civilised tribalism" (football is the definition of tribalism and no two tribes mingle...it matters. In Rugby it doesn't matter so much...and as for "civilised tribalism"...oxymoron)

"Only last week Ian Ritchie, the Rugby Football Union chief executive, was extolling the virtues of life on the Six Nations beat at Twickenham, where the English and Irish and Welsh sit side by side, with nary a copper in sight and no arrests on the charge sheet in years" (how lovely, less rivalry...pass the sandwiches and flask old boy)

Bonhomie and silence......or atmosphere and real tribalism. Not a difficult choice, unless you view Rugby as a day out at the picnic type thing. A social gathering as opposed to an event. Brian Moore I normally agree with but his comment is way of the mark.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Crowd segregation wont fix that. Look at the GAA, there's great tribalism amongst fans despite the crowds being mixed.

I don't think there's an easy way to improve the atmosphere at a lot of World Cup games. If we're being blunt, there are a lot of pool games that are very hard to care about. Will Japan vs USA be able to get a British crowd riled up? Unlikely.

As for the atmosphere at international games in general, the problem there lies in the fact that it's a corporate gig. Too many tickets for the boys, not enough real fans.

 

[goodNumber10]

Crowd segregation wont fix that. Look at the GAA, there's great tribalism amongst fans despite the crowds being mixed.

I don't think there's an easy way to improve the atmosphere at a lot of World Cup games. If we're being blunt, there are a lot of pool games that are very hard to care about. Will Japan vs USA be able to get a British crowd riled up? Unlikely.

As for the atmosphere at international games in general, the problem there lies in the fact that it's a corporate gig. Too many tickets for the boys, not enough real fans.

Absolutely spot on!

 

[SimonG]

The GAA point is a decent one...still there is nowhere near the tribalism here in GAA as in football across the water (England and Scotland...and many other parts of the world.). There isn't the chants, banners, or vitriolic undertone.

Perhaps Rugby just doesn't have the tribalism to begin with which makes segregation unimportant.

 

[Feicarsinn]

The GAA point is a decent one...still there is nowhere near the tribalism here in GAA as in football across the water (England and Scotland...and many other parts of the world.). There isn't the chants, banners, or vitriolic undertone.

Perhaps Rugby just doesn't have the tribalism to begin with which makes segregation unimportant.

Well, I don't particularly want to see a vitriolic undertone creep into rugby. As for songs and chants in the GAA I think the rapid scoring nature of the game kind of makes that unworkable. If there's a point every minute or two you don't have the time to strike up a good chant. As for banners, I don't know where you get the idea that there's a shortage in the GAA. Flags and banners everywhere in my experience.

English football is an interesting example. In footballing circles the league is hardly renowned for its atmosphere. You'll find better fare on the continent or in the championship in that regard. On this season Man Utd had to bring in that singing section lark to generate a bit of noise in their 70,000+ seater stadium.

Again, I think it comes down to ticketing. For atmosphere the best league in Western Europe is the Bundesliga. It's also the cheapest. You can get a ticket for a Borussia Dortmund game for a tenner. If you want atmosphere, make it so that the actual fans can afford to go every week. Corporate types who can afford to shell out 75 quid a pop for an Ireland game aren't going to make as much noise as a bunch of (cheerfully) rowdy students. Simple as.

 

[SimonG]

Your speaking about home fans (at Old Trafford)...it's the away section (the hardcore) that endlessly sing and taunt the home fans.

Very rarely do you see a banner at a GAA game...plenty of flags but no content. John 3:16 at Hill 16 is yer lot. There's not anywhere near the same intense rivalry toward another region/team as is the case in England...the away fans have to stay over after full time and be escorted out of the ground. GAA you can mingle and chat among yourselves...but unlike Rugby there is more continuous cheering.

Edit; John 3:7

 

[ratsapprentice]

The article makes a great case for it. The same paper had an article on how dead the atmosphere was at the last England test in autumn. Silence throughout.

The atmosphere at Twickenham in the 6N was the best I've even seen it - and the majority of people agree judging by how many people remarked on it being so.

As Feic points out a large part of the issue at Twickenham is the makeup of the crowd being fair-weather fans there as part of an annual ritual rather than being there to watch and support England.
They aren't particularly passionate about the team or the sport.
Whatever they did in the 6N clearly worked because the difference between then and the Autumn was marked.
What they certainly didn't do was segregate people.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Your speaking about home fans (at Old Trafford)...it's the away section (the hardcore) that endlessly sing and taunt the home fans.

Very rarely do you see a banner at a GAA game...plenty of flags but no content. John 3:16 at Hill 16 is yer lot. There's not anywhere near the same intense rivalry toward another region/team as is the case in England...the away fans have to stay over after full time and be escorted out of the ground. GAA you can mingle and chat among yourselves...but unlike Rugby there is more continuous cheering.

Edit; John 3:7

Well if you think that's preferable more power to you. I wouldn't like rugby to enter the territory where we need police escorts for groups of opposing fans though.

 

[SimonG]

large part of the issue at Twickenham is the makeup of the crowd being fair-weather fans there as part of an annual ritual rather than being there to watch and support England.
They aren't particularly passionate about the team or the sport.

Can understand that...I have been to Twickers once and I would have been one of those fair-weather fans. Went to experience it, tick the box type thing. Have to say I preferred the ground before the last redevelopment. Had more of an identity with one side smaller than the other three.

Sticking my neck out here...but could the main issue be the type of people that go to games? As in more well to do, educated, stock broker type folk as opposed to working class ruffians?

 

[SimonG]

Well if you think that's preferable more power to you. I wouldn't like rugby to enter the territory where we need police escorts for groups of opposing fans though.

Not advocating police escorts, but it is indicative of how intense the rivalry/tribalism is in England....which is a priceless commodity in sport.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Sticking my neck out here...but could the main issue be the type of people that go to games? As in more well to do, educated, stock broker type folk as opposed to working class ruffians?

Those are the people I'm reffering to - and it's not because they are upper-class that they are **** for the atmosphere - they're **** because they aren't there primarily for the rugby.
They are there because it's what they do - they go to Twickenham for a day out... not because they want to see good rugby.

A rivalry that intense is highly undesirable for the vast majority of people.
There is a balance to be struck.

 

[SimonG]

That's what I was thinking...read about these types in that Telegraph article before Christmas. One thing i remember witnessing for myself was the pre match ritual of sandwiches and flask of tea outside Twickers. The amount of cars with their boot up was endless. It's a "day out at the Rugby".

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's not all of them - and it's not limited to upper-class people... (see Sarries' Wembley games)

As I say, though... the atmosphere was greatly improved with just a little gentle active encouragement - to the point where I think it's fair to say it was actually very good as opposed to the regular flatness.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not entering the argument but thought this was good place to post this as an advert for rugby and non segregation of supporters.............


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o2DQiY1xPTI

This should have gone here.....

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If anyone thinks crowds aren't active, I suggest you rewatch the Eng-Wales and Eng-Ire games from the 6N. There were many comments about how loud the crowds were and how good the atmosphere was.

Whatever they did in the 6N clearly worked because the difference between then and the Autumn was marked.
What they certainly didn't do was segregate people.

I suspect there was a bit more exposure in mainstream and social media about this 6N, at least that's how I felt.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

People said London 2012 was going to be s**t and it really really wasn't.
I have faith.

Twickenham has the potential to be a bit dull, depending on the amount of corporates vs fans that are there, but all the other games should be amazing, especially as the tickets are reasonably priced/accessible.