RWC 2019 Qualification

[Scan]

So, as in RWC 2011, the top three teams in each group at the end of this World Cup qualify automatically for 2019. This (I think) is only the second time it's worked that way and the 12 teams that made it last year were all standard (Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland, France, Italy, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, Samoa and Tonga). Fiji didn't make it though. But that was fine, there was still the one Oceania place left and - as Tonga and Samoa had already qualified - they just had to beat the Cook Islands to qualify for 2015.

But this year, if two Pacific Island teams failed to qualify (say, Fiji and Samoa), could only one of them claim the one Oceania spot? And what if all three teams failed to come in the top three this year? Would we be left with a World Cup with only one of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa in it? Very unlikely of course but, is it possible?

And actually - now that I think of it - if Japan came third in their group this year, would there be another Asian place up for grabs? That would be great for RWC 2019 since it's in Asia.

I don't suppose anyone knows all the ins and outs of RWC Qualifying?

 

[SelimNiai]

Japan are in automatically I assume as hosts, that would mean, I hope a 2nd Asian team will be able to qualify.

 

[Scan]

Japan are in automatically I assume as hosts, that would mean, I hope a 2nd Asian team will be able to qualify.

I never thought of that. They'd have to be in automatically as hosts so. Looks like Korea and Hong Kong have it all to play for now.

 

[SelimNiai]

Would expect Hong Kong to take it unless Korea play with plenty of Seoul

(couldn't resist that one)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would expect Hong Kong to take it unless Korea play with plenty of Seoul

(couldn't resist that one)

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.........oooooooooooooooooooo

 

[SelimNiai]

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.........oooooooooooooooooooo

I could make a korea of these jokes

*OH AND HES DONE IT AGAIN*

 

[ncurd]

:wall:

 

[ABs2011]

So Japan has qualified already (being the hosts). By the end of the Cup a further 11 (if Japan make top 3 in their pool) or 12 teams (if they don't) will qualify.

It's a good question how things work after that! I'm not sure they have even settled on the number of teams have they? I wonder if they will make their mind up about all that once they see who the teams are that will have qualified post RWC 2015.

I personally think its a no-brainer that a 2nd Asian team should get a spot. Also given the improvement of the likes of Japan, Georgia, Namibia, etc, I would not be opposed at all to an increase to 24 teams. I think with the Olympics having 7s next year rugby will become more and more popular in the smaller nations and it's time therefore to start expanding.

 

[ncurd]

Increasing the quantity of teams makes little sense in an emerging market which already has issues over its hosting.

Will stick to 20 teams for this edition I think 2023 would possibly make more sense if it's France, Ireland or SA

 

[ABs2011]

Increasing the quantity of teams makes little sense in an emerging market which already has issues over its hosting.

Will stick to 20 teams for this edition I think 2023 would possibly make more sense if it's France, Ireland or SA

Japan will be right with their hosting, are you worried about crowd numbers though if they increased the number of teams?

That being said, I'm pretty sure they won't increase the number of teams, just that I personally would not be opposed to it as I think the game has a great chance to grow more given the Olympics inclusion.

I think an additional four teams from the likes of Russia, Spain, Portugal, Chile, Hong Kong, Kenya, & Zimbabwe etc and then countries like China & Brasil in the future wouldn't be a stretch. Gotta start somewhere anyway, and play on the hype around the olympics is what I think they could try and do!

I take it then ncurd, they haven't made decisions on the structure of qualifying yet for 2019? Do you know?

 

[ncurd]

I have no idea on structure.

On the tournament itself there have been reports about concerns about Japans willingness to hold the tournament.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...chiefs-refuse-to-rule-out-host-nation-switch/

 

[ABs2011]

I have no idea on structure.

On the tournament itself there have been reports about concerns about Japans willingness to hold the tournament.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...chiefs-refuse-to-rule-out-host-nation-switch/

Yeah, I had heard about some of that, but I wouldn't be too worried. It happens a lot with hosting big tournaments by they generally always tend to come through. All the hoopla seems to be around the Tokyo stadium, and that is just about $ for the big games.

Other than that I lived in Japan for 3 years and know they can get things done in a hurry if they need to. My only concern might be whether they can fill stadiums for the smaller games (particularly for the mind teams if they increased to 24), but to be honest I don't think that will be an issue. There is a surprisingly large rugby supporter base over in Japan so I think they will go ok.

As for qualifying, I guess it hasn't been decided yet. Although one would think it is too late to increase the number of teams beyond 20. The question will be how are the remaining 7/8 spots allocated.

 

[Scan]

I'm pretty sure RWC 2019 is nailed down to have the standard 20 teams, but there was talk of an expansion for 2023 I think.

It'd be interesting to see a 32 team tournament with eight pools of four. There wouldn't even be a need for each team to play any extra games. There would be even more VERY one-sided matches though, not to mention the fact that it would be much harder to host. Still, it'd be great to see some brand new teams get a shot at a WC. Hong Kong, Chile, Zimbabwe, Brazil, Madagascar, Kenya, Germany, etc....

Which brings me back to my original theme again: if ALL THREE Pacific Islands qualified automatically for the next WC (which is possible considering Samoa and Tonga are pretty sure to come third in their respective pools. It could just take one big result for Fiji) then surely the Cook Islands or Papua New Guinea or some team like that would get the Oceania 1 spot. That'd be kind of cool. They'd get annihilated but, it'd be nice to see a new team in there.

 

[ABs2011]

I'm pretty sure RWC 2019 is nailed down to have the standard 20 teams, but there was talk of an expansion for 2023 I think.

It'd be interesting to see a 32 team tournament with eight pools of four. There wouldn't even be a need for each team to play any extra games. There would be even more VERY one-sided matches though, not to mention the fact that it would be much harder to host. Still, it'd be great to see some brand new teams get a shot at a WC. Hong Kong, Chile, Zimbabwe, Brazil, Madagascar, Kenya, Germany, etc....

Which brings me back to my original theme again: if ALL THREE Pacific Islands qualified automatically for the next WC (which is possible considering Samoa and Tonga are pretty sure to come third in their respective pools. It could just take one big result for Fiji) then surely the Cook Islands or Papua New Guinea or some team like that would get the Oceania 1 spot. That'd be kind of cool. They'd get annihilated but, it'd be nice to see a new team in there.

I'm not sure thats how it works. By all accounts the structure of qualifying has not been settled. My guess is that if all three island teams get automatic qualification then that will be it for the south pacific. That is just opinion though so if someone has the facts that would be much appreciated.

I would be highly surprised if they opened up a spot to a 4th pacifica island nation like the Cooks though. The standard of rugby there is extremely low compared to the other pacific teams let alone the big boys. I believe Fiji put 100+ on them in qualifying.

EDIT: just read Fiji scored 13 tries in the second half in that game!!

 

[Scan]

I'm not sure thats how it works. By all accounts the structure of qualifying has not been settled. My guess is that if all three island teams get automatic qualification then that will be it for the south pacific. That is just opinion though so if someone has the facts that would be much appreciated.

Unfortunately, I think your right. It's a shame. It's always good to see a new team at a World Cup. Madagascar broke my heart before this tournament. I'll just have to hope World Rugby lets a second Asian side in for 2019...

 

[marianodan]

Tonga and Fiji are almost 90% sure to end in 4th place in their groups. Samoa unless they beat Scotland or Japan, too.

In the worst case scenario, in which Samoa also fails to finish 3rd of their pool, I assume they will remove one of the two spots for Europe (since Georgia will qualify directly) and give it to Oceania. And to let Tonga qualify I guess they will probably give Oceania a place at the intercontinental qualifier, something they didn't allow for this edition.

So, to sum up, the likes of Uruguay/Russia are going to be screwed for 2019. Instead of them we'll probably see a second asian team, the other 19 will be the same (perhaps Namibia is the only one I could see losing to a new team in their continent).

 

[first5eight]

A bit of a tangent but related.. I've always thought the world cup should be a bit like the Sevens. At the end of pool play you have the main cup tournament but then also split into a plate playoff. It would keep the smaller nations involved in the tournament and give them more exposure and keep there fans interested. Some of the equally matched tier 2 countries could put on some cracking games - would be good to see Samoa v Tonga or Georgia v Romania, Japan v England played on the world stage.

 

[tompaton7]

This would be my way of doings things. For qualifying, I would combine the Asian and Pacific qualification process as opposed to previous qualifiers. And then I would guarantee one team from each region. Then based on how the other teams in each region go in qualifying, I would allocate 4 Repechage spots. For this there could be 4 Repechage qualifying pools of say 4 teams. So lets take an example.

Lets say from this world cup the Pools end up finishing like the following (just random guesses):

Pool A - Australia, Wales, England, Fiji, Uruguay
Pool B - South Africa, Scotland, Japan, Samoa, USA
Pool C - New Zealand, Argentina, Georgia, Tonga, Namibia
Pool D - Ireland, France, Italy, Canada, Romania

So through go the Australia, Wales, England, South Africa, Scotland, Japan, New Zealand, Argentina, Georgia, Ireland, France, Italy.

Then the regional take place. Lets say the regional qualifiers are:

Europe: Romania, Oceania/Asia: Samoa, Americas: USA, Africa: Namibia

Then you take the next best four teams from each region. So for example (based on what we saw last time):

Europe: Russia, Portugal, Spain, Belgium
Oceania/Asia: Fiji, Tonga, Hong Kong, Korea (I assume the other Pacific Nations wouldn't mount a big challenge).
Americas: Canada, Uruguay, Chile, Brazil
Africa: Zimbabwe, Kenya, Madagascar, Tunisia.

Then you allocate them a Repechage Pool based on their World Ranking. Do this in a random draw. So the tiers for these pools would be similar to that of the actual World Cup Draw.

So according to the rankings today, the tiers would be like this:

Tier 1: Fiji, Tonga, Canada, Uruguay
Tier 2: Spain, Russia, Chile, Hong Kong
Tier 3: Korea, Belgium, Zimbabwe, Kenya
Tier 4: Portugal, Brazil, Tunisia, Madagascar,

So for example the Pools could be:

Pool A - Fiji, Hong Kong, Belgium, Brazil
Pool B - Canada, Russia, Korea, Madagascar
Pool C - Tonga, Spain, Kenya, Tunisia
Pool D - Uruguay, Chile, Zimbabwe, Portugal

These games can be played at a random venue - possibly in Japan this time around as they are hosting the world cup. Then the winner of these Pools each go through to the World Cup. Then when you want to expand the tournament to 24 teams, the top two from these Pools will go through.

Finally, when everyone has qualified, the draw will for the World Cup will be done. This can be done a year before the tournament and when everyone has qualified. The rankings of every single team can be taken into account, so teams like Fiji (who are ranked 10th in the world but probably won't gain automatic qualification) can be put into the 3rd tier for the draw.

I hope this isn't overly complicated haha.

- - - Updated - - -

A bit of a tangent but related.. I've always thought the world cup should be a bit like the Sevens. At the end of pool play you have the main cup tournament but then also split into a plate playoff. It would keep the smaller nations involved in the tournament and give them more exposure and keep there fans interested. Some of the equally matched tier 2 countries could put on some cracking games - would be good to see Samoa v Tonga or Georgia v Romania, Japan v England played on the world stage.

I like this idea, you could play the games midweek while the quarter finals are occurring. It would also be a better way of deciding the automatic qualifiers as opposed to 3rd places in the pools.

So you'd do the exactly the same thing for quarter finals except, 3rd replaces 1st and 4th replaces 2nd. So for example in this tournament you could potentially get plate quarter finals like:

England/Australia/Wales v Japan/Samoa
Japan/Samoa v Fiji
Italy v Tonga
Georgia v Canada

And the teams that get to the semi finals of the plate would get automatic qualification for the next tournament. It would also be a revenue builder for World Rugby and we know how much they love that haha

 

[TRF_heineken]

I wonder if Japan will still be an automatic qualifier if they don't comply WR regulations for hosting the tournament, and South Africa has to step in as host nation?