RWC Officiating

[FlukeArtist]

Good article here from Gregor Paul in the NZ Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11518982

Have to agree with what he is saying.
The TMO use has gotten crazy.

I guess we can complain about refereeing standards most of the time, but that Namibia - NZ game was a tipping point for TMO use.

But looking at the 2 ABs games so far, both referees have been poor. Barnes is still not up to standard (IMO) and Poite & Ayoub (and the touchies) were deficient in the Namibia game.

Then takes into account the refereeing in Aus-Fiji and Sco-Jpn and you have a mini crisis looming.

 

[Cookies]

The reffing in last night's Argentina V Georgia was very one sided too. Georgia very hard done by, and Pumas allowed multiple blatant forward passes. Not really good enough.

 

[marianodan]

The reffing in last night's Argentina V Georgia was very one sided too. Georgia very hard done by, and Pumas allowed multiple blatant forward passes. Not really good enough.

They were forgiven a thousand high tackles (mainly from Gorgodze) and didn't gave ARG a try that should have been (which didn't matter because ARG scored inmediately after).

 

[Cookies]

That wasn't a try though. Could not see ball grounded.

 

[smartcooky]

Some of you ought to be careful what you wish for.

I played, refereed and watched rugby in the time before the TMO, and it wasn't the promised land many of are dreaming it was. There were things that happened including tries awarded which were not. TV audiences, sometimes numbering in the millions, could see that the referee got it wrong, but the poor referee was effectively hamstrung and made to look stupid by TV replays that got better and better as the video technology improved.

A couple of examples;

The 1972 last second try by Tom Grace that allowed Ireland to draw with the All Blacks. Grace forced the ball well past the dead ball line, but the try was awarded. A TMO would have overturned it.

The 1987 RWC semi final between France and Australia. France knocked the ball on in the lead up, and the French fullback, Serge Blanco, who scored the try in the corner, was in touch before he grounded it. It was the last play of the game. With a TMO, the try would have been disallowed, and the final would have been New Zealand v Australia.

 

[Cookies]

France have a habit of doing that *cough*

 

[smartcooky]

France have a habit of doing that *cough*

Yep. but to be fair. they were shafted by a bad decision in the 1995 semi-final. If a TMO had been available then, Benazzi's try would have been allowed, and the Springboks would have been knocked out, the final would have been New Zealand v France

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Some of you ought to be careful what you wish for.

I played, refereed and watched rugby in the time before the TMO, and it wasn't the promised land many of are dreaming it was. There were things that happened including tries awarded which were not. TV audiences, sometimes numbering in the millions, could see that the referee got it wrong, but the poor referee was effectively hamstrung and made to look stupid by TV replays that got better and better as the video technology improved.

A couple of examples;

The 1972 last second try by Tom Grace that allowed Ireland to draw with the All Blacks. Grace forced the ball well past the dead ball line, but the try was awarded. A TMO would have overturned it.

The 1987 RWC semi final between France and Australia. France knocked the ball on in the lead up, and the French fullback, Serge Blanco, who scored the try in the corner, was in touch before he grounded it. It was the last play of the game. With a TMO, the try would have been disallowed, and the final would have been New Zealand v Australia.

Well no, it was 24-24 before Blanco scored, so had that try been disallowed then surely extra time would have been played and then who knows what would have happened.

 

[Car]

Some of you ought to be careful what you wish for.

I played, refereed and watched rugby in the time before the TMO, and it wasn't the promised land many of are dreaming it was. There were things that happened including tries awarded which were not. TV audiences, sometimes numbering in the millions, could see that the referee got it wrong, but the poor referee was effectively hamstrung and made to look stupid by TV replays that got better and better as the video technology improved.

Just look at all the debates in football/soccer where that's the problem. There are discussions about referee mistakes all the time and it's arguably easier to tell what is going on, at least most of the time.

 

[PacDuran]

The reffing in last night's Argentina V Georgia was very one sided too. Georgia very hard done by, and Pumas allowed multiple blatant forward passes. Not really good enough.

Couldn't agree more man. One Argie try had 2/3 blatant forward passes. The skills of reffing will be lost. I think they should do away with the TMO for everything except grounding of tries.

 

[smartcooky]

Couldn't agree more man. One Argie try had 2/3 blatant forward passes. The skills of reffing will be lost. I think they should do away with the TMO for everything except grounding of tries.

The reffing in last night's Argentina V Georgia was very one sided too. Georgia very hard done by, and Pumas allowed multiple blatant forward passes. Not really good enough.

I'm interested to know which try you are talking about. I watched the a half hour highlights package last night and didn't see a try that had any forward passes in the build up

Could either of you tell me which try you are talking about (here is full replay)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enljfbCUuOU

 

[PacDuran]

I'm interested to know which try you are talking about. I watched the a half hour highlights package last night and didn't see a try that had any forward passes in the build up

Could either of you tell me which try you are talking about (here is full replay)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enljfbCUuOU

Pretty sure it was the Imoff try? Great run down the wing with a couple of dodgy passes in midfield.

 

[smartcooky]

Couldn't agree more man. One Argie try had 2/3 blatant forward passes. The skills of reffing will be lost. I think they should do away with the TMO for everything except grounding of tries.

The reffing in last night's Argentina V Georgia was very one sided too. Georgia very hard done by, and Pumas allowed multiple blatant forward passes. Not really good enough.

Pretty sure it was the Imoff try? Great run down the wing with a couple of dodgy passes in midfield.

If this is the try you are talking about, none of the passes look clear and obvious forward passes to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=enljfbCUuOU#t=3396


You do understand that a pass that travels forward over the ground is not necessarily a forward pass, right?

 

[Cookies]

I remember there being a few. Not thrown backwards out of the hands, travelling forward etc. 56:56 is a good example. One possible line ball and then a short forward pass.

 

[donmcdazzle]

There also way too many scrum penalties. Games shouldn't be dictated by them you should have to play decent rugby rather than just scrum, penalty, kick to touch, line out, maul, penalty, kick for points. Such a **** way to play rugby

 

[merlinux]

There also way too many scrum penalties. Games shouldn't be dictated by them you should have to play decent rugby rather than just scrum, penalty, kick to touch, line out, maul, penalty, kick for points. Such a **** way to play rugby

Isnt that what rugby league is all about?
heh heh
But seriously if they are no mistakes at the scrum or breakdown, there arent any penalties. It's just a matter of sloppy play and I have found that a lot of tier 1 teams have been very sloppy this time around.

 

[jflintoff]

let's not bring up some of the dodgy passes which put the AB's out of the cup against France...

 

[Ospervat]

Any thoughts on who you would want to see officiating in the final irrespective of the two teams to get through. Based on performance thus far I would choose
Owens - R
Barnes and Joubert - AR
Veldsman - TMO.

Reserve:- Peyper or Clancy

 

[saulan]

I feel like I am in the minority here, but I would much rather have the TMO involved as much as possible when there is uncertainty then to have a team feeling let down or hard done by following a wrong decision. If we think about it, which will we remember in the long run, the TMO taking too long or a wrong decision resulting in a crucial loss. For example, that New Zealand-France forward pass in 2007 or the Bismarck Du Plessis Dan Carter yellow card. We still see those brought up in discussion today. Rather use the technology.

That being said, I think it should be sped up and there is actually a great example of how to do it. I can't remember exactly which game it was in this World Cup, but Wayne Barnes was reffing and he thought there may have been something illegal that happened. Instead of waiting for play to stop or stopping play to check, he just said "Georgie" to the TMO and the TMO checked while play continued whether there was an issue. In the end no foul play was found and there was no stoppage in play. This really should be done more frequently.

Any thoughts on who you would want to see officiating in the final irrespective of the two teams to get through. Based on performance thus far I would choose
Owens - R
Barnes and Joubert - AR
Veldsman - TMO.

Reserve:- Peyper or Clancy

I wouldn't go with Veldsman. I have actually thought he has not performed up to standard. He hasn't communicated his decisions well with the referees when he makes them and I get the impression he has wanted to just show the different replays to the referee and then let the referee make the decision himself. Look at the England yellow over the weekend for example, he showed Poite the footage and said those were the angles. Then Poite said what he wanted to do and only then started advising him on what he thought was the best process to follow.

 

[Fard]

Any thoughts on who you would want to see officiating in the final irrespective of the two teams to get through. Based on performance thus far I would choose
Owens - R
Barnes and Joubert - AR
Veldsman - TMO.

Reserve:- Peyper or Clancy

If it is Australia V AB final then Barnes will do me.